MASTERS LEAGUE - THE NATIONAL LEAGUE TABLE FOR THE 35+

jim croft · Post by **jim croft** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:28 pm

As a organiser I only put DV down if the competior has ticked the DV box and given a D.O.B if you leave them blank you would be enterd as a Senior, hope that helps.
Jim

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:58 am

I received an email from Federico concerning the Masters League but prefer for all comments/queries to be posted here so that one and all can have their say. Accordingly I post it below and comment thereafter.

Subject: New Master (Veteran) League Table for 2009 for those Aged 35 and Over

Dear Peter,

I was reading your proposal about age bands etc. and I agree with you in creating age bands; that would make the whole thing a bit more fairer. However I don't agree in forcing the Veteran Division 2/3 in partecipating as DV with demotion/promotion associated considerations.

I was a Div. 1 paddler and the choice to become Veteran division 2/3, at the age of 43, came when pressure was building up, because I couldn't train properly, because in Ayrshire we don't have a decent slalom course and we need to travel for a couple of hours to go to Grandtully and finally because I have small children to look after (3 under the age of 6).

Veteran division 2/3 give me the chance to attend many events in Scoltland without the pressure of being demoted. I am a L4 kayak coach and I do slalom to keep my technique at good standards, that's why I do slalom.

For the 2009 I will apply again for the Division veteran 2/3 and I know other paddlers will do the same. I would accept the age band thing and the consequent re-status in DV only if you guarantee the non demotion. I am in Div 2 and I want to stay in Div.2 forever, that's it.

At the end of the day, what matters is the result you will gain within your age band, not the promotion, otherwise I am thinking that someone is stirring the whole thing up because of self-ego interests.

With best regards,

Federico Pezzaioli

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:20 am

Hi Federico. There is no forcing here. The Masters League is an unofficial pilot scheme and by the end of 2009 we should then have a better idea of what will work and what will not.

I agree that if we have age banding, then the divisions are somewhat less important. Quite simply, a paddler will be able to see where they "rank" in the League for thier age group and therefore it would not matter which division they are actually in. However, this is on the basis of arriving at a fair and reasonable method of sorting out the total number of points which actually differs between P/Div 1 and div 2/3. I think the latter has half the points so simply doubling them (solely for the purpose of the league) might be the answer. Not sure if they take best 3 or best 5 events so that might need a system too. Alternatively, rather than a single League for all divisions, there could be two, higher and lower, P/Div 1 and Div 2/3.

As this League is currently a separate entity from the official Divisional system, it will have no effect at all on ranking or promotion/demotion. It will simply be derived from the best 3 or 5 ranking points for each paddler. My current spreadsheet has a maximum of 5 columns for those results and after each event I propose to see if any Master has posted more points than their best score and revise it accordingly.

Maybe at the end of 2009, if the League can be integrated or replace the DV/V system, the requests for remaining in specific divisions can be incorporated. As someone who does not understand anyone being permitted to stay in a division against the normal rules of promotion/demotion, I do not personally like the whole concept of it. But that is just a personal view of course. I favour any paddler competing in the division they are able to compete in by merit. It seems strange to me that the same people could continue winning lower division events and opt not to be promoted. Even wrong and unfair to those properly suited to that division who are being denied a win. However, that is not a debate for this thread I think. But in answer to your query Federico, fear not for 2009 as all remains the same in reality. But please assist in fine tuning the League through 2009 and in the creation of one or two Motions for the Slalom Committee to decide upon at the next ACM. Hope this reassures you there is no stirring and no ego trips.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:37 am

Attn Bib Officers and DV/V Competitors.

I am making excellent headway with the Masters League Table for all divisions and all classes

NP has kindly passed onto me the majority of Dates of Birth (DoB) for Prem & Div 1 competitors and I now require those in other classes and divisions. If I do not get this information then I will simply put those people in the lower age band of M35 of course.

My hope is that Bib Officers will be able to furnish me with the majority of this information but if individuals wish to PM their DOB here to ensure they are in the correct class and band, that would be helpful. If your name appears next to a blank yellow box on this document Click Here then I do NOT have your DoB.

fison · Post by **fison** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:14 pm

it looks like i will have to attened a few races next year as this masters looks good

Phil Stevo · Post by **Phil Stevo** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:40 am

It will be good to see you on the water again Fison - and if the Masters League encourages more paddlers back into their boats (as I think it will) that's what its all about.

It will be interesting to monitor the number of over 35s that re-rank this coming season and if last season's over 35s enter more races next year.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:18 pm

Thanks for that post Fison

Even if it motivates you alone to compete where you may not have done otherwise, I will be very happy indeed. Tell your waterbourne pals! And yes Stevo, of course this IS what it is all about. Giving each 35+ competitor more purpose to their sport by making it more fair and reasonable and motivating paddlers to compete.

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:20 pm

I'm a bit late on this one. Scheme seems fine, but am I missing something? Rule 3.5 (UK) states DV is "Over 34 on 1st Jan". Does this mean if you are 34 and x days or if you are 35 or older? I always assumed the latter, which would mean I'm Senior for the year but also M35 in the league? Or have I got it wrong and I'm DV as well?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:11 am

This is an interesting observation. However, I read it as over 34 (ie 35) on (or after as it says for all the J12's to J18's) the 1st Jan that year. If this is correct it might have been helpful if it read "35th Birthday on or after 1st January".

So, maybe the following is correct? :-

M35 - 35th to 39th Birthday on or after 1st January
M40 - 40th to 44th Birthday on or after 1st January
M45 - 45th to 49th Birthday on or after 1st January
M50 - 50th to 54th Birthday on or after 1st January
M55 - 55th to 59th Birthday on or after 1st January
M60 - 60th to 64th Birthday on or after 1st January

Hows that?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:58 pm

Oh! Allow me to answer my own question having just spoken with Jim Croft - its spot on!

Remarkably, having made the above statement "If this is correct it might have been helpful if it read "35th Birthday on or after 1st January" only 14 hours ago, Jim has coincidentally proposed a revision of the Yearbook wording for DV's to "35th birthday on or after 1st January" - which is word perfect! That is amazing! Must be telepathy or something as he assures me he had a discussion about this with others a few days ago!

Accordingly, whilst the Masters League is entirely unofficial (for the 2009 season at least) competitors will be placed within the Master age bands as noted above.

Sorted

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:46 pm

Thanks. Only bad news is I thought it was another year until I was officially old

Anyhow, looking forward to being in the Masters league.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:07 pm

The good news for you FB is that you are in the youngest section of the League so don't grumble! lol

While I am posting, can all who read this please check the previously posted request for DOB's HERE for those highlighted on the linked page. Some have already sent me their DOB but many have not so if you are one of those who have not, please do! If you have already sent me yours, I have it and do not require you to resend just because your name is still highlighted on the linked page. I am just not updating it. Ta.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:06 am

Further to my request for Masters DOB information I have just got around to filling in my own Bib Application Form as found HERE and I am delighted to note that the DOB is required on this form.

The form also allows you to opt in or out of the DV (Master) status and adds a note of explanation. In short:-

Opt IN and you will be a DV in the relevant M Class for your age.

Opt OUT and you will NOT be included in the Masters League and instead of being a DV you will be a Senior.

That is very helpful indeed and top marks to whoever sorted the form out!

Accordingly, if you have stated your 35+ DOB on your Bib Application Form as requested, you do NOT need to respond to my request for it here as I will obtain this from the Ranking Officers in due course.

Many thanks....get your Bib Application Form in!

PP

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:31 am

Hi fellow DV's who have chosen to opt into the Masters League

All is looking good on the spreadsheet now with a few results coming in but I am short of some vital information from some of you. Accordingly, if you wish to see where you stand in the Masters League (which I hope to soon forward to NP for publishing on the website when I have all the info) please ensure you have sent me your DOB. The following have already competed in 2009 and .......

I NEED YOUR DATE OF BIRTH IF YOU APPEAR HERE PLEASE:-

PREM

Ian Bridges
Steve Briggs
Tim Meyrick
(Probably JJ as well as I cannot imagine he has hung up his blades yet!)

Div 1

Pete Atkinson
Mark Davies
John Hall

Louise Weir
Tracy Wells

Div 2

David Owens
Paul Beever
Andrew Lyall

Tanya Gibbons
Susan Templeton

Div 3

Adrian Ward
Michael Heath
Steve Weddell
Stephen Harrett
Brian Dunn
Jack Upstall
Roger Blanchard
John Lewis
Leslie Davies
David Jones
Philip Bate

Donna Hawkins

In fact, I seem to have NOBODY from Div 3 at all so if the compiler or bib officer has this info please send to me asap

Once I have this information I can maintain a regularly updated scoreboard for publishing here.

Many thanks,

PP

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:45 am

Thanks Steve your PM is noted