British Open - The Future - hhmmmmm?????

phatboy · Post by **phatboy** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:48 pm

Firstly, a great weekend for all, very well run. Alot of work went in and it paid off.... However,

It has been said by the vast majority that having our British Open held at Llangollen, at this time of the year, is something that needs addressing.

It seems alot of hassle to hold the main event of the UK canoe calendar on a course which, in many peoples opinion, is simply not up to the standard of the competition itself, having to get all the seperate land owners permission every year, and even then not being able to predict the water levels or the number of international competitors taking part. Town falls, I believe along with others has had its day. Its as if the competition is being held there, for those who remember it in its prime over 10 years ago. A race cannot run purely for the nostalgic value. (on top of all this, I saw quite a few injuries to peoples boats because of lack of water.)

Would it not make more sense to hold the event somewhere where it is much easier and simpler to run it?

Therefore, as Cardiff is to be completed next year, could we not propose that we run the British Open there instead? It is a city where it is much easier for international paddlers to access, with direct flights left right and centre. The course would provisionally be of a suitable standard, and it would encourage alot more publicity for the new course, to generate income and help the centre to run more effortlessly.

* also, would it be possible to run the race closer to the summer months? Having races so late in the year doesn't generate the interest of the paddlers who in most nations have already completed their own racing season and are beginning to focus on setting into winter training, for example, last weekend at the Dutch Open, there were still very few nations competing at the race outside of the Nederlands.

A bit of food for thought.

(any comments apprectiated but please, constructive not destructive people!)

Matt Lister. =)

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:56 am

A very well run race under difficult circumstances so those involved are to be congratulated for all their hard work

I do however have to agree that the course has probably seen its day and the very low water levels didn't help. I'm sure we weren't the only ones who came away with significant gouges out of the boat!

The soon to be be new venue at Cardiff sounds ideal and as has already been said much easier for overseas competitors to get to

As lovely as Llangollen is I too feel it's done its job now.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:50 pm

Perhaps we should pay more attention to course types vs calendar dates. We always aim for the start of the season for Shepperton because there is a reasonable chance of good water levels - not a certainty I know, but still a good chance.

Perhaps we should be considering a similar approach to Llangollen and aim for racing there in March/April time (anyone know when the fishing season starts?).

Cardiff, HPP and the new Olympic course etc could then be used in the summer and at the end of the year when water levels are less reliable.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Llangollen Angling Association sya

The Salmon season starts on 3rd March.
It is fly only until 31st May.
Spinning and fly are then allowed until 15th June.
Then fly,spinning,worm and prawn from 16th June to30th September.
The last 17 days of the season to the 17th October are fly and spin only.

I understand this can change from year to year. But basically Llangollen is either VERY early in the season, or at its current late time. Remember that (like many 'natural' rivers we have had too much water before. AND organising dam release from Bala to Llangollen has eefect from Bala to Chester so would be very complicated.

The same site asks for information on 'illegal canoeing', and bemoans:

We no longer control the fishing on the Meadows.This has been relinquished due to the canoe disturbance making it unfishable and uneconomical in the circumstances

Shame we can not coexist on the water isnt it?

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:10 pm

I agree that as an international event Llangollen Town is not up to scratch.

However, I think we should retain at least a Premier/Division One event at Llangollen, or else we will be left with Grandtully as the only proper natural river race in the calendar.

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:26 am

I think that Town falls is a god venue to hold a prem race and to loose it to paddle at another concrete ditch would be a real shame.

Town falls also offers a real public arena for canoe slalom. The same cannot be said of any other British slalom course, and again this would be a shame if we can't keep this up...

I love canoeing and love racing on proper rivers and think that the slalom season would miss this event. Granted the water was low on saturday and don't think that the course helped the cause (particularly gate 3!), but I do hope that Town falls is here to stay...

Nicky

Oh yeah, Dave, I can't remember if you came up to abbey for the prem/one, but think that we'll be applying for a div 1 at least in 2011, so hope to reinstate another natuarl river back onto the calendar, watch this space...

jjayes · Post by **jjayes** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:02 pm

Here is a link to a video of the weekend.

British Open 2009.jjayes youtube

Enjoy.

jjayes · Post by **jjayes** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:02 pm

It would be good to have everybody's input before a final decision is made. I would say these are important events as they are our only town center slaloms and one of our goals for many years has been to get more public interest and spectators, this is the only the UK events that consistently delivers this. as they say with any business location, location, location!!!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:42 pm

Just my six penneth

Pro's Con's
Natural River Water level not guaranteed
Good PR Value in Town Centre Poor parking
Good value for sponsor's Only local sponsors involved
Poor facilities for changing
No camping on-site
Awkward to arrange due to fishing season
Cancellation of event leads to too much competitors unrecoverable cost for accommodation as per the Div1
A lot of hard work for the organisers preparing the course

Lets be honest the Euro's was fantastic at HPP it looked good and everything you wanted was on-site and it was a great event.

If you want a real river then you will always have a problem with will it, won't it run, too low or too high, just remember the competitors lost a run on the Saturday at Tees because the water came up!

I am guessing that the real alternatives would be the Tryweryn, Cardiff or HPP for facilities or Washburn or the new course at Tees.

Sorry but I feel that the days of Llangollen have gone and it is time to move on.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:31 am

I like river slaloms no matter what the problems are. That natural environment does it for me. There is something alien and unwelcoming about a Disney Flume that simply does not float my boat (pun intended!). Also, concerning a place like Town Falls, nostalgia is NOT a thing of the past for me and nor should it be for anyone. Tradition and customs are just a couple of things that made crumbling Britain great.

I think even with the problems and inconveniences (another pun re the lack of conveniences there) that tradition and history should be a large part of any decision making here. If we abandon all those, yes we move forward and "progress" but we do not have substance. No matter how you chip and tune a Jap car, it can never command the status of a Ferarri. No matter how many whistles and bells you fit on a Lexus, it can never command the clout of a Roller. Town Falls for me (I first raced there in 1974) has a lot of clout. It is the Silverstone of the slalom scene. Donnington (HPP in this analogy) tried but looks like failing to steal its crown.

If the young guns get their way (and dont forget I used to be one ok) they will be equally unimpressed when a future generation come along and says "Look, HPP, Cardiff, Broxbourne, all 20 years old now.....its a cold country ok, you get wet, cold, the wind blows the poles all over the place, the Sony PS45 requires the same skills but you can do it in the dry and warm!............."

Hmph!

PP

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:39 am

i think that its some of the nostalgia thats preventing the sport moving forward yes llangollen is a fantastic venue and i would agree that a prem needs to be retained there but the british open needs to be on more reliable water if its to attract foreign paddlers and improve its status
the euros was a fantastic event and showed what we can do when everything works well

not sure that cardiff would be the venue of choice its not central enough and i would imagine that for the scots and any northern/eastern paddlers it would present a very long journey indeed hpp would win my vote for the british open next year, perhaps it would be good to have some kind of paddler vote to get an idea of where they would like the british open to be held ???

jjayes · Post by **jjayes** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:15 am

It is interesting to compare the alternatives mentioned as they also have their problems. The Tryweryn events have often been canceled due to water problems, same for HPP, including cancellations due to bad water quality, the Washburn also has its problems. I can not think of any course in the World that does not have any problems.

The new course at Tees is a unknown quantity as yet and Cardiff being on the coast may be prone to high winds, we just do not know yet. I have been around long enough to remember all the hype prior to HPP and the Tees before they opened, it took more than twenty year to change HPP into what is now a good course, but still with its problems. For the new Tees course we will have to wait and see?

Other things that will certainly effect the future of our sport is the environmental impact and economics of pumping water at a considerable cost, not just for events but also for training. It is plain to see that slalom is already pushed out to a certain extent at some venues due to the courses having to be financially viable. The cost of electricity and therefore pumping will rise sharply in the next few years.

Check this... http://www.ref.org.uk/Files/ref.elec.pr ... .05.08.pdf

I really do think we need to look a long way into the future to be able to make good decisions for our sport otherwise it will not survive. We need to keep our options open. We need more courses not less, just because there are new ones coming and we stop using others the effect is that there is no growth in the sport at all.

This is not just a issue about one course it is about the future direction and the success or failure of the sport.

kanu.63 · Post by **kanu.63** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:53 pm

Why can't the British open change every year, so it travels around the country, so all venues can have access to a potential show piece event in their region and try to promote slalom to peolpe in their area promote the sport more geographicaly?

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:38 pm

Just to throw in a spanner albeit a small one, with regard to public PR. I visited 2 shops that could be classed as high end visitors shops - art crafts etc - and both shop owners told me that this, and I quote, "messing around on the river" was a nuisance and inconvenienced them as shopkeepers and stopped their clients from being able to park.

I politely explained what the event was about and pointed out that it was an international event that was bringing in a lot of visitors to the town.

I was met (on both occasions) with an icy glare, a hurumph and a "well the council could tell us about it and it's still a nuisance"

If that had happened in one shop I'd just put it down to the owner not keeping abreast of things - but 2 shops? Hmmm maybe we're not even very welcome ?

jjayes · Post by **jjayes** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:20 pm

Make no mistake the towns traders do want the events, the town has suffered badly during the winter months in the past few years with the loss of the tours
.
email to slalom chair from chamber of trade chair, re events...

Hi Anne,

I have just been informed regarding the proposal to move your event away from Llangollen. As Chair of The Llangollen Chamber of Trade and Tourism I am sure that our 100+ members would be devastated to lose this event.

We have a meeting scheduled for Monday so please let me know anything that I can do to persuade you to keep you in our town

Kind regards,
Stephanie Booth

email to to slalom chair from towns council...

Anne

Stephanie Booth copies me in on her emails from you about the potential

loss of the canoeing events from Llangollen and I just want to express

the Town Council's concerns at the loss of the events here. I can

contact the St Johns people about the state of the hut and will contact

the Llangollen Silver Band who have a hut next door. They have submitted

a planning application for a new building on the site and it looks as

though this will be approved. I can ask them if they would be willing to

let you use their new building if it would help. We accept that parking

is a problem and we are certainly looking at methods of increasing the

provision and it is pretty clear that the Royal Interenational Pavilion

will have at least 100 more spaces available in the near future. Our

Traffic Warden here is the best we have had and is the most considerate

and understanding. He uses his discretion more than anyone else and

unles there is an obvious infringement of the regulations will be most

accommodating. There is little we can do about the slab and I am aware

of the problems with the local angling club. I can contact the

Environment Agency regarding water levels and see if there is anything

they can do to assist next year. I note the costs of safety but if some

funding could be found from somewhere here to contribute to your costs

would that make a difference to your decision to stay/

Let me know if there is anything else we may be able to help with in

order to ensure you come back again next year. Jim Croft will miss his

visits to see me I am sure!

Ian Parry

Town Clerk

Llangollen Town Council