At the moment the site is as per Olympic spec i.e. as Colin stated bridges for emergency access, not for general public - their equal access although commendable is often a bit extreme hence the lack of adequate brides, long way round banks of grass which will eventually have worn paths despite the keep off the grass signs!!! - there will be some changes, not sure how many, changes after the games.
Yes we used the bridges for the selection race, couldn't havre done it without otherwise rediculously long walks to anywhere!!!
I agree though the cafe serving area is tiny and badly positions - not helped by staff who cannot move at more than snails pace!!!
Shall be interesting to see how it all panns out next week!!!
Legacy ??????? - Div 1 Calendar
This is unfortunately how we think in this country, but it isn't the only way. In many countries where there is a political will, sports facilities are provided either free or at very low rates. Naturally the facility has to be funded somehow, but other countries find a way to do this, either through central or local government funding, or some other form of subsidy. I have limited overseas experience myself, but I have been to Argentierre, Bourg-St-Maurice and Augsburg, all of which provide excellent training facilities for our sport, where we don't have to cowtow to commercial interests. And these countries have better welfare state provision and lower debt, so maybe the economic argument doesn't hold up.PeterC wrote:Pumped courses unfortunately have to run on a commercial basis. There is cost in pumping water uphill only to let it run down again. The water is also usually quality assured - more cost. Why should slalom be subsidised and by whom - why should we have it cheap? The free lunch really does not exist.
Of course nothing will be achieved moaning on an internet forum though.
I smell a petition.davebrads wrote:Of course nothing will be achieved moaning on an internet forum though.
Piggy-backing off of the Olympic momentum and incorporating the comparison to other countries.
Maybe Lord (you don't know how much it took for me to type that, medieval feudal titles have no place in 21st century.) Coe should be the recipient.
More likely this guy though
http://www.hughrobertson.org.uk/type13. ... 88&type=13
- ever heard of him, no nor me
I can think of less funny things to do than bombard a politiician with lengthy letters.
Neil, if you or the slalom committee draft a letter I'd post a copy to the above minister if you thought it would help, and others would do the same. At the very least there should be an obligation for these venues to offer some not-for-profit slalom competition days (preferably subsidised by rafting from the rest of the yr).
Given all the above discussion how did the div 2/3 Legacy slalom manage to balance its costs?
There might be room for negotiation with the centre as paddlers wishing to paddle the course the following day would bring further revenue to the centre. Any money from such paddlers could be given to the slalom organiser. Or some similar arrangement.
If it transpires that the centre can use competitors' runs during a slalom as a quick form of competency assessment then the slalom itself increases the number of paddlers who may come back to the course - hence increasing their revenue. Another point for negotiation.
Given all the above discussion how did the div 2/3 Legacy slalom manage to balance its costs?
There might be room for negotiation with the centre as paddlers wishing to paddle the course the following day would bring further revenue to the centre. Any money from such paddlers could be given to the slalom organiser. Or some similar arrangement.
If it transpires that the centre can use competitors' runs during a slalom as a quick form of competency assessment then the slalom itself increases the number of paddlers who may come back to the course - hence increasing their revenue. Another point for negotiation.
I'm not (I don't have the attention span)
It was just an idea. But a draft letter does sound a good idea to me. It would need some weight behind it from on high and then a mass mail from as many as poss. I work on the basis if you don't try you don't know.
Thinking about the Cockleshell Heroes this morning. I bet if we wrote to Cameron and said we were gonna mount a canoe borne assault on Tripoli Harbour he'd put some money in......warmongers eh!
It was just an idea. But a draft letter does sound a good idea to me. It would need some weight behind it from on high and then a mass mail from as many as poss. I work on the basis if you don't try you don't know.
Thinking about the Cockleshell Heroes this morning. I bet if we wrote to Cameron and said we were gonna mount a canoe borne assault on Tripoli Harbour he'd put some money in......warmongers eh!
I would that it were otherwise Dave however at the moment the public sector is squeaking with financial constraint within which we are having to work and yet deliver against an increasing service demand. While political support in cash would be most welcome until it arrives (and I am not holding my breath) we have to plan on the basis that we have ways to meet the running costs, which in some cases such as the pumped courses are inevitable and have to be met, from somewhere.
We also need to understand the difference between capital or infrastructure one off costs which can be and often are written off politically and the revenue or maintenance and operation costs - these latter have to be met as a result of use either by the users or from another source.
Tongue firmly in cheek: Maybe for those paddlers who are not judging they need to spend an hour or so on a static bike generating electricity to help us keep costs down!
Seriously the only alternatives are commercial sponsorship, media rights (the two are linked) or paying our own way in respect of revenue costs. Rafting unfortunately perhaps does pay its way.
I would also note Dave that the water in the courses you mention starts at the top (having fallen on large mountains - Alps) in large quantities and comes down on its own, sometimes gate controlled. It does not then get pumped back up!
We also need to understand the difference between capital or infrastructure one off costs which can be and often are written off politically and the revenue or maintenance and operation costs - these latter have to be met as a result of use either by the users or from another source.
Tongue firmly in cheek: Maybe for those paddlers who are not judging they need to spend an hour or so on a static bike generating electricity to help us keep costs down!
Seriously the only alternatives are commercial sponsorship, media rights (the two are linked) or paying our own way in respect of revenue costs. Rafting unfortunately perhaps does pay its way.
I would also note Dave that the water in the courses you mention starts at the top (having fallen on large mountains - Alps) in large quantities and comes down on its own, sometimes gate controlled. It does not then get pumped back up!
I could do with shedding some weight - I'm in.PeterC wrote:Maybe for those paddlers who are not judging they need to spend an hour or so on a static bike generating electricity to help us keep costs down!
Or a big hamster wheel. If you wore clothes made of meat like that American publicity machine you could release a pack of dogs into the wheel - run faster and capitalise on the energy from the dogs as well.
Or stick a fox in a pack of hounds and some toffs on horses
If it transpires that the centre can use competitors' runs during a slalom as a quick form of competency assessment then the slalom itself increases the number of paddlers who may come back to the course - hence increasing their revenue. Another point for negotiation.
We're travelling down from Scotland, so I phoned Lee Valley and asked exactly this, as I wanted to put the kids who are competing in the div 2/3 on the loop again on Sunday for some training. Despite having a phone number and email address taken, and then following it up with an email of my own, I have not been told yet whether this is possible or not, and as there are no assessment spaces until the end of August, there's between 40-60 quid they possibly won't get from us on Sunday (4 paddlers, 2-3 hours @ £5). What happened to our "participation statement"? "Canoeing and Kayaking are “Assumed risk” – “Water contact sports” that may carry attendant risks. Participants should be aware of and accept these risks, and be responsible for their own action and involvement" - sounds like at Lee Valley it's not worth the pixels taken to put it on the screen!
If I hear from LV regarding the assessment and paddling Sunday, I'll let you know...
Steve
The centre wish to do familiarisation with all those paddling , not sure how this will happen yet and I am in the process of discussions re assessments for those racing, now whether just racing will be enough I do not yet know but all being well anyone that wants assessing whilst there should be able to do so.
We will be posting a start list in the next few days ( closing date for entries is tomorrow, 2 weeks before) and further details will be posted as we get them!!! So watch this space.
I understand that we have the risk statement but they as a company are liable and I know getting canoeing on the course has been delayed by insurance discussions, there has already been one broken leg and they are a bit jittery and I understand another person was taken off by ambulance with a head injury at an assessment session.
As regards petitions ans letters to MP's I do think before we go in with two feet we need to explore all other options first - Tesco's is a great idea but they cannot do anything until the course is handed back to Lee Valley after the games as not an official sponsor - they are already involved with GB canoeing in a big way so who knows where it may lead!
We will be posting a start list in the next few days ( closing date for entries is tomorrow, 2 weeks before) and further details will be posted as we get them!!! So watch this space.
I understand that we have the risk statement but they as a company are liable and I know getting canoeing on the course has been delayed by insurance discussions, there has already been one broken leg and they are a bit jittery and I understand another person was taken off by ambulance with a head injury at an assessment session.
As regards petitions ans letters to MP's I do think before we go in with two feet we need to explore all other options first - Tesco's is a great idea but they cannot do anything until the course is handed back to Lee Valley after the games as not an official sponsor - they are already involved with GB canoeing in a big way so who knows where it may lead!
So for the dissenters this shows that something is happening.
I think it would be good to lay some groundwork with Tesco though - who would be best to do that?
Whilst I suggested the MP thing I think it is probably premature - the temptation to deluge a power hungry suit has comic potential though
They are off on their summer break too. Like teachers they get a long break - unlike teachers I never understood why. They knock off about 20 July and don't come back till September 5ish.
Presumably the country can run itself in this period as terrorists, African dictators, bonus grabbing bankers, volcanoes, epidemics, phone hackers et al all take a long holiday to so it's a great time to go.
Ask you boss for 7 or 8 weeks off and see what they say - as I see it they work for the electorate and need to put in an honest years work, what am I saying honest for it has no precedent,
I think it would be good to lay some groundwork with Tesco though - who would be best to do that?
Whilst I suggested the MP thing I think it is probably premature - the temptation to deluge a power hungry suit has comic potential though
They are off on their summer break too. Like teachers they get a long break - unlike teachers I never understood why. They knock off about 20 July and don't come back till September 5ish.
Presumably the country can run itself in this period as terrorists, African dictators, bonus grabbing bankers, volcanoes, epidemics, phone hackers et al all take a long holiday to so it's a great time to go.
Ask you boss for 7 or 8 weeks off and see what they say - as I see it they work for the electorate and need to put in an honest years work, what am I saying honest for it has no precedent,
To be honest my beef is less with the new courses, they were clearly going to be too expensive from the outset, so to expect any real "legacy" for our sport was always a bit pie in the sky, though the legacy course itself is showing encouraging signs.
But when I wanted to run a slalom at HPP in June or July they quoted £8,000 for the hire of the course. The white water course itself (the bit we are interested in) costs a negligeable amount to run, as Peter pointed out is the case with most of the overseas courses. The main cost is the infrastructure (which we don't need).
There is something wrong with this country when a facility that was paid for with sports funding gives priority to giving people "experiences" in rubber buses over its intended use.
It's like expecting cyclists to share the velodrome with quad bikes.
But when I wanted to run a slalom at HPP in June or July they quoted £8,000 for the hire of the course. The white water course itself (the bit we are interested in) costs a negligeable amount to run, as Peter pointed out is the case with most of the overseas courses. The main cost is the infrastructure (which we don't need).
There is something wrong with this country when a facility that was paid for with sports funding gives priority to giving people "experiences" in rubber buses over its intended use.
It's like expecting cyclists to share the velodrome with quad bikes.