Page 1 of 4
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:40 pm
by Mick h
I have just looked at the proposed calendar for next year and am disappointed that the Div 1 paddlers are not getting the opportunity to paddle on the new Olympic site or at Cardiff. Then I watched the Helen Reeves video on the Canoe England website and listened to her talking about Legacy.
Again the slalom commitee show that the only people important to this sport are the elite athletes.
It would be nice to race at Lee Valley before it turns in to unsustainable white elephant or before I turn into a grumpy old man.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:48 am
by Munchkin
Firstly the olympic site is being handed back to LOCOG for much of next year so no-one can use it (other than training internationals and selection (which I understand is paid for from the Elite budget not the general slalom budget)), secondly where is the money going to come from to pay for the hire of these courses? The Cardiff Prem event is already held in the evening/ early morning to reduce venue hire costs.
If you want to have a go volunteeer to judge! You still get valuable water time, get to help others AND there are usually prizes!
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:46 am
by Dee
I can see where Mick is coming from BUT I don't think this is the fault of the slalom committee. As Munchkin says, the costs of hiring these venue are just too high for the sport to afford. Perhaps though the "blame" could be placed elsewhere for pricing the courses out of reach of the sport!
Here's some things to consider -
Given that prem paddlers get to enter ranked races at these expensive venues, should the prem entry fee not be more than that for div 1 paddlers.
Would prem/div 1 paddlers be prepared to pay more to compete at races at these venues?
Could we change our entry fee structure to charge more for specific div 1/prem events that are held at these places?
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:06 pm
by Munchkin
Dee wrote:Here's some things to consider -
Given that prem paddlers get to enter ranked races at these expensive venues, should the prem entry fee not be more than that for div 1 paddlers.
I concur!
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:17 pm
by AndrewG
I disagree entirely.
Surely it should be the other way around?
Div 1 paddlers get 3 runs (including official practice) Prem Paddlers only get 2.
Shouldn't Div 1 paddlers be paying 50% more?
This extra income could then be used to finance more Prem only events at Cardiff/LVWWC etc.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:25 pm
by Dee
This extra income could then be used to finance more Prem only events at Cardiff/LVWWC etc.
I hope this was tongue-in-cheek!
Of course, following your logic through, Andrew, div 4s, who invariably get lots of free practice too, should be paying a small fortune :laugh:
Has anyone ever worked out what the event cost comes to per ranked competitor at places like Cardiff etc? Would be interesting to compare.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:09 pm
by SilverSurfer
I think you need to take a step back and look at the underlying problem. It is great that new courses such as Cardiff and Lee Valley have been built, but they are built on a commercial model, which does not support the slalom community.
When building any new venue, the commercial model used for sustaining the venue, should factor in the running of several slaloms throughout the year at zero or minimum cost to the event organiser.
That way the future of slalom is supported, whilst creating an interest to paddlers from the general public.
Unfortunately, as we have seen with the Olympic ticket debacle, common sense doesn’t come into it.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:54 pm
by kendall chew
Couple of daft questions:
What does Zoetemere ( Holland) do when it has slaloms? They must have similar problems, which knowing the Dutch, they will have overcome. Is this a model we could follow?
If the Freestylers hold competitions on pumped water, presumably they will have the same problems. should we not make representations, jointly, to these sites and, if our suggestions are not heeded, perhaps we should jointly find alternatives?
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:49 pm
by Neil H
Mick h wrote:before it turns in to unsustainable white elephant
If you think those questions are daft try these
Why don't they take some of the money taken from assessments and do something positive with it
Is anybody else outraged by the slight against albino pachyderms
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:09 pm
by Canadian Paddler
At the end of the day, if you want a slalom somewhere, get together as a club, and RUN IT. Do not complain the the slalom committee are not putting on events, it is the clubs (i.e. the paddlers, that is US LOT) who should run the events, the slalom committee's role is to try to balance the requests.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:46 am
by Phil
Unfortunately no allowance is made to discount slaloms in these business models. If the Tryweryn can get away with causing a world champs (river racing) to be cancelled as they wanted compensating for loss of rafting income. I'm not at all optimistic that we'll get a look in at these shiny new venues, already training on gates for non funded slalomists at Lea Valley is being severely limited/compromised (no gates allowed in the flow). All it would take is one session a day for slalomists (could be at anti-social times) and a provision for a few weekends for races at an affordable rate.
I'm afraid the legacy will be for the City Bankers to go rafting at £50 a head 
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:42 am
by John Sturgess
Colin
As you say, Clubs should get on and run events
However although the Slalom Committee does not run events, it can stop clubs running them - i.e. this year 2 applications to run Prems were refused to make way for Cardiff ....
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:29 am
by oldschool
Clubs won't run events at a loss! they simply cant afford to, and the prices being charged at the venues make it prohibative. Running a slalom on a natural river barely breakes even so thinking about running one on a course charging thousands of pounds for a weekend is not something most would consider. I heard a figure for running a race at teesside (if it ever opens again!) and nearly fell off my chair.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:57 am
by Phil Stevo
Legacy or Lunacy?
A course that is built for slalom where ordinary slalomists will get the lowest priority?
A course built for the largest sporting event in the world on home soil where people who have dedicated years to competing, coaching and organising slalom cannot get tickets to watch?
A course built for slalom that doesn’t have a picture of a slalom boat on its home page?
My advice to young budding slalomists:
1. Talk your parents into emigrating to Prague
2. If they refuse advise them beer is cheaper than water in Czech Republic
3. Load the car and drive there avoiding Teesside, HPP, Lee Valley, Cardiff and Zoetmere just in case you get charged for passing within 20 miles of the courses
4. Set up camp at the World Championship course in Prague
5. Paddle there every day, all day for a couple of quid
6. For a change paddle 1 kilometre warm-up to a 100 gate Div 1 standard course that is free
7. For another change drive 30 minutes to Roundice or Roztoky
8. Spend your weekends on Krakow, Solkan, Bratislava, Ljubljana and Augsburg where slalomists have priority
9. Book your parent into rehab
More seriously, the cost of living is cheaper in the Eastern European countries so you would expect to pay less but all the courses I’ve been to in Czech are low tech designs.
Basically if there is a weir build a straight course with concrete, boards or old tractor tyres creating the features. No pumping costs, very little maintenance and little or no staff to pay.
How many of these types of courses could have been built for the cost of Lee Valley I wonder?
To show I’m not really that bitter about not getting tickets for the Olympics my judges entry for the Legacy Loop slalom has gone in the post today!
And now I'm just wondering if after paddling a slalom on Lee Valley will we have to pay for an assessment to paddle on the same course the next day?
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:07 pm
by davebrads
And it's free to paddle at Bourg. Nuff said.