Helping injured people at events

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:21 pm

Just wondered if organisers /officials at events should be told of paddlers/ spectators willing to help injuried/ unwell people at events. Should I write something to this effect on my entry card ? Just a thought.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:55 pm

Hi katonas,

At every event there is a list of first aiders displayed (usually somewhere near control). I am sure any organiser would be thrilled to have names added to the list so it is probably worth asking them on the day if they would like more names.

Though obviously organisers would have to be careful that only those qualified to do so are on the list...

M

oldschool · Post by **oldschool** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:11 pm

We usually have several first aid qualified people at events. As a club with lots of coaches most senior paddlers have a outdoor/aquatic first aid qualification.

We do however try to ask the most senior, experienced and qualifed first aider to be the nominated one put on the forms in control and to take control in emergency situations. As with many things you often find that whoever is on hand will do whatever they can to help with whatever situation they find themselves in.

But as an organiser if someone wants to offer their services (i guess medical profesional, rescue services type roles) should the need arise, i'd happily accept.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:50 am

I'm a GP who has worked in A+E, but haven't updated in first aid for some time. Its probably best for someone like me to take a secondary role and 'chip in' with relevant questions/ examinations. Medicolegally it wouldn't be wise for a GP such as myself to take a primary role.

Last sunday I was asked if we should put my dad in recovery position to which the answer was no. It wasn't until he'd had a CT of his neck that a neck # was excluded. A combination of age and shock prevented him from feeling pain from his #r wrist/elbow (open)/maxilla and orbital floor. I'm awaiting results of a further CT head (done yesterday) to see if his brain haemorrhage has extended. He remains cheerful and talkative ! I'd better keep mirrors away from him for a while though.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:46 pm

But as an organiser if someone wants to offer their services (i guess medical profesional, rescue services type roles) should the need arise, i'd happily accept.

Me too. Although we have lots of bods with first aid qual, it is often quite hard to find one willing to be put down as our first aider on the list.

Katonas - sounds like you dad has been in battle; hope he recovers soon.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:43 am

Thanks Dee, and to everyone else who has asked about my dad. His second CT scan showed a reduction in the size of the bleed, and he remains talkative and alert.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:28 am

If following the rules strictly we might have to have fully manned expensive ambulances at quite a few of our Slaloms - I have yet to find who thought that was a good idea!

There are a fair number of us that spend time on or around river banks that have medical qualifications which is theoretically meant to ensure that we treat medical problems with some common sense but does not make us first aiders. Our coaches should all have current first aid qualifications and usually we have one or two of them also circulating so from a risk management point of view as someone who does do A&E and trains paramedics I am comfortable.

I am much more uncomfortable with the implied assumption in the race rules that requires paddlers to potentially effect rescues. Some of our Div 2 competitors would be very challenged on some of the water they race on particularly with an unconscious paddler in the water...

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:51 am

Faced with someone unconscious in the water, I'd capsize my own boat and get in the water myself if there was no-one on the bank close by.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:02 am

katonas wrote:Faced with someone unconscious in the water, I'd capsize my own boat and get in the water myself if there was no-one on the bank close by.

Which goes against the first rule of rescue

You are the number 1 priority and your saftey is paramount.

Although not a subsitute for a Whitewater safety/ lifeguarding (as a second best) course this is a good start... http://books.google.com/books....t35V3AC

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:59 pm

I'm sure you're right Munchkin. I just had a mental image of lots of people at a busy event, so being in the water myself would be fairly safe at the finish line, with a chance to give mouth to mouth in the water if they weren't breathing. I don't think I could get someone unconscious to the river bank very quickly if I was still in a canoe. I'm probably a better swimmer than canoeist (though not as fast

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:05 pm

That gives me an idea for a new sport - whitewater slalom swimming (elbow and knee pads essential).

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:15 pm

PeterC - I hope you go to lots of slaloms, its great to have someone of your experience around. You've also identified that I didn't have much idea of how to rescue an unconscious paddler. Its very useful to have 'what would you do?' discussions.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:05 pm

White water swimming - Mmmnnn... Risk evaluation for that one might be challenging.

I agree with Munchkin - please stay in your boat and preferably upright.

An unconscious patient may still be breathing and have a heartbeat so resuscitation on white water probably not required. Keep it simple and stay safe yourself. If possible roll them onto their back and hopefully their face will come out of the water with buoyancy in their helmet. The best place to hold them - if you can safely while drifting them down - will probably be the bottom of their bib or buoyancy aid which will help to force their head back a little.

Unfortunately the buoyancy on many aids used for racing is low down to keep the arms free and is not designed primarily to keep your head up as for example arm bands - I am not advocating these for paddling but might be useful for lunatics trying white water swimming!:D

Two paddlers in the water is twice the rescue challenge of one so please stay in your boat.

If you want something fun why not try some extreme ironing - I do have photos of my son partaking of this in kayak in the middle of Tully complete with Iron and Ironing board!

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:34 am

Thanks Peter, great advice. I've haven't done any ironing for years but I reckon I could juggle 3 skittles in a kayak.

Must dash, time to look for those armbands the children used to use...

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:05 am

White water swiming - reminds me of the cardboard canoe races of old. Until you have built your canoe from card and tried to race it down the Serpents Tail (at a good level) you have not paddled!

Video available at the end of the Canoeing down Everest DVD available from all Chris Baillies