Lee Valley (Rafting) Health & Safety Nazis!

Slow_n_dirty · Post by **Slow_n_dirty** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:04 am

Hi,

Has anyone else experience the over zealous Rafting Nazi's at Lee Valley?

I went there the other weekend to check out the course for the first time and if you cross over the chain to check out the water they jump on you and physically man-handle you back. I mean WTF? We can happy check out HPP, Trywerwyn, Tully - Bourg and Argentiere - yet are stopped from looking at somewhere a lot safer. Ironically the chain itself is more of a trip hazard then the water!

Any one else experience these "Jobs Worths" who do we complain too, and would it do any good?

SnD

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:48 am

Were you wearing a BA?

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:05 am

I don't get much affection these day so, I might go up there and throw my baseball over the wire and then walk out to get it just for some human contact - was that The Great Escape?

I like the image of the Wermacht storming through the low countries in their Panzers complete with wide - vehicle signs and the commanders wearing fluorescent jackets and ear defenders.

Trip Hazard sounds like a character in a low budget American action movie

Slow_n_dirty · Post by **Slow_n_dirty** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:26 am

No I wasn't wearing a BA!!! I wasn't wearing one at Bourg or Argentiere, or Tully or any other site in the Europe.

Why does everyone have to "protect" me? If I fall in that's my own silly fault. Where is the big risk? It's more safe than practically any other site in the country, how many coaches/spectators do you see fall in? How many of them die?

The safety element should be in proportion to the risk, at LeeValley it is clearly NOT.

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:59 am

Whether you like it or not the absolute rule at Lea Valley is that you cannot go in front of the chains without a BA on. The judges at selection/ the test event (who were sitting on chairs away from the waters edge) were subject to those rules. I cannot see why we (or more particularly you) think that you should be beyond those rules, particularly as you were clearly getting closer to the waters edge so you could see the water than the judges would have been.

As for how many people I have seen falling in? Lots! At HPP there was a infamous incident where a passer by (wearing flip flops and holding her handbag) tried to "rescue" a swimmer and ended up going in herself. She ended up having the safety guys going in after her as they kept her head up in the Office, she didn't have a BA on. At the Lea Valley 2/3 one of the safety guys managed to fall in TWICE even though they were not actually safetying at the time. That person (no names mentioned!) was wearing a BA in accordance with the Lea Valley rules and only fell in as they were looking at something else at the time!

As for it being very safe. Maybe it is perceived to be, but that's because it is an artifical course and therefore people think it is safe. As someone who has floated down Lea Valley with a broken leg I can tell you that without my BA I would have struggled to keep my head above the water. I am well known for being a very good swimmer but something as basic as one limb (albiet short one!) being out of action can greatly change that.

When in a public area eg Bourg, Argentiere, Tully you can make whatever choices you like but when on private land you need to abide by their rules.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:03 am

If you want real safety you should be wearing a 150N or more self inflating life jacket. BA's will not reliably turn you right way up, hold your head clear of the water and provide enough passive buoyancy in large white water. BA's however as Munchkin knows to her cost though do provide significant assistance when normal service becomes disrupted.

Owners of facilities are clearly free to make their own minds up about the risks and have rules to manage that which they see need to manage and the rule as applied makes more sense than some pretty ridiculous rules within Slalom that are predicated on the basis that they provide safety.

A BA will also provide significant impact protection to the torso from 'obstructions' in the flow which may be more important than their flotation capability.

Until we ourselves are perfect and have clear evidence to support alternatives maybe we should just reasonably get on with complying with this one. I also do think the bank sides at all the other courses noted, if doing a dispassionate risk assessment are significantly different and and probably safer.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:06 am

Why don't Lee Valley ask you to wear a helmet as well ?

Come to think of it, I wish I'd lent my dad a helmet to walk by Abbey Rapids. Its easy with hindsight, but I think non-paddling spectators are at significant risk espec if they're getting on a bit.

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:40 am

katonas wrote:Why don't Lee Valley ask you to wear a helmet as well ?

When I was there I had just come off the Legacy course and wandered over to watch the midget on the Olympic course. I still had all my paddling kit on - except my helmet which I'd put in my boat. I stepped over the chain and was told to go back as I didn't have a helmet........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clarity required

TOG · Post by **TOG** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:22 pm

katonas wrote:Come to think of it, I wish I'd lent my dad a helmet to walk by Abbey Rapids. Its easy with hindsight, but I think non-paddling spectators are at significant risk espec if they're getting on a bit.

Getting on a bit or no, this actually was a topic of conversation last weekend at Abbey. Given the number of non-paddlers involved (at a very large, but impressively well organised and efficiently-run event) I'm surprised that more folk didn't hurt themselves, to my knowledge. Though I managed a couple of inadvertent air-clutching dance moves myself, the only potentially serious incident I witnessed/assisted was a junior paddler who, flipflops betraying him, landed on his hip on the rocks with his boat on top. He was wearing a helmet, of course, but was pretty sore. Perhaps more suitable footwear next time advised........

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:56 pm

TOG wrote:I witnessed/assisted was a junior paddler who, flipflops betraying him, landed on his hip on the rocks with his boat on top. He was wearing a helmet, of course, but was pretty sore. Perhaps more suitable footwear next time advised........

I suspect that was mine, was it you I spoke to? If it was mine I must have told him a thousand times re those flip flops, but oh no he knows best

Let that be a lesson, albeit a lucky one

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:11 pm

If the safety Nazis don't do their job they will probably get disciplined and eventually sacked, so have some sympathy and remember they don't make the rules up they are just the poor sods who have to enforce them.

On a similar vein a spectator/visitor has had to be saved at Tees before now who was just our for a Sunday walk so you can see why its an issue that might trouble venues.

Slow_n_dirty · Post by **Slow_n_dirty** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:12 am

Health and safety "nanny-state" as I said I don't need protection thank you very much, I big sign stating that this is a dangerous area is more than sufficient to mitigate the risk which is after all relatively small.

The "poor sods" who have to implement the rules need a lesson in manners - I don't need to be physically man-handled over the chains, the reaction was disproportionate - to any risk.

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:16 am

Slow_n_dirty wrote:I don't need to be physically man-handled over the chains,

You could try crossing the chains wearing a helmet and BA but nothing else. I doubt they would manhandle anyone then

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:23 pm

If it wasn't mine it's just as serious though - I did have to tell mine not to wear flips flops for the vertical get out.
Nowhere was safe though, I even busted a nocturnal move on the way to the portaloo - that was more due to the reaction of a cow pat against rubbersole and wet grass