I see that Michelle is struggling to find volunteers for safety for HPP. The problem as far as I see it is that this event is run by the Canoe England Slalom Committee, whose numbers are limited, and most of whom are already giving up a lot of time to the sport. In the past they have called on the families of England team members, but it shouldn't be much of a surprise to find that this is a struggle, there has never been much of a feeling of "belonging" to the England team. I have The solution is something that I have long believed, competitions should be run by clubs as they have the structure to be able to call on volunteers.
This then leads on to our next problem, we don't have sufficient clubs large enough to run high profile events. This was not always the case. The club coaching structure has been consistently undermined by the professional coaches who, instead of providing support for the clubs and their athletes, appear to go out of their way to tear the heart out of the clubs. The slalom committee has done little to help over the years, there has never been very much support for existing clubs or any planning to increase the numbers of clubs. There is a perception that the committee has prioritised committee run events over club run events in the past too. Many good and committed coaches have given up coaching due to the number of times they feel they have been kicked in the teeth. As a result many clubs have declined, some to the point where they have gone out of existence altogether.
Something needs to be done to turn this around. The only people that have the time and the resource to do this is GB Canoeing, but as clubs have never been a priority for them it seems unlikely that they can be trusted to deliver even if they were given the task. So some funding needs to be diverted away from GB Canoeing to support the voluntary sector of the sport. I don't know how funding is decided, so I don't know if it is even possible, but unless something is done our sport will continue its slow slide into what will be an embarrassingly small sport considering its Olympic status, and we will be drawing our future national team paddlers from a smaller and smaller pool of talent. We will have less and less events being run on a smaller choice of venues, and these will be concentrated in small pockets with ever increasing areas of the country having no access to our sport whatsoever.
Our sport is a mess
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djberriman
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm
Re: Our sport is a mess
There are indeed few 'big' clubs just take a look at the club leagues if you want that confirming, and many on the brink of vanishing, I'm not sure events run by individual clubs is the answer, the load falls on a small number of volunteers who already commit time to running those clubs, a better model (IMHO) is that they are run by regions or a number of clubs thus spreading the load.
As an example Washburn events are usually run by Yorkshire Slalom Committee ('Yorkshire Clubs'), thus different clubs provide different elements and hopefully no one is too over burdened. Similarly Howsham is run by Lower Wharfe and Kingston KC. Perhaps this model could be used more (and it probably is to some extent).
Funding of any type would be good, even just to cover out of pocket espenses. When you look at the cost to individuals of providing coaching and running events its a wonder any of us do it. So those who might criticise organisers should always remember there are many volunteer hours required to set up and run events especially in remote areas with no infrastructure and also costs to each and every volunteer which are not repaid without which events would not exist. In these economic times and with little positive feedback sometimes its no wonder those prepared to take days off work and spend their hard earned cash to run an event are falling.
Getting safety cover and judges seems to be getting harder, so next time you are at an event and hear a request for help, perhaps see if you can spare some time as the organisers and their helpers will have already committed many hours to run the event for you. If you are not in a rush to leave help taking down the event is always appreciated.
As an example Washburn events are usually run by Yorkshire Slalom Committee ('Yorkshire Clubs'), thus different clubs provide different elements and hopefully no one is too over burdened. Similarly Howsham is run by Lower Wharfe and Kingston KC. Perhaps this model could be used more (and it probably is to some extent).
Funding of any type would be good, even just to cover out of pocket espenses. When you look at the cost to individuals of providing coaching and running events its a wonder any of us do it. So those who might criticise organisers should always remember there are many volunteer hours required to set up and run events especially in remote areas with no infrastructure and also costs to each and every volunteer which are not repaid without which events would not exist. In these economic times and with little positive feedback sometimes its no wonder those prepared to take days off work and spend their hard earned cash to run an event are falling.
Getting safety cover and judges seems to be getting harder, so next time you are at an event and hear a request for help, perhaps see if you can spare some time as the organisers and their helpers will have already committed many hours to run the event for you. If you are not in a rush to leave help taking down the event is always appreciated.
Re: Our sport is a mess
This kind of development within the clubs is the main aim of the Canoe England Slalom Committee, and a secondary aim is also to promote the identity of England, as a home nation, and a team to belong to. And as a committee, we have money for development projects of any type, from money for poles and gates, to club training camps abroad, to having coaching courses run.
And we are really struggling to spend the money on this! Nobody seems to want it, there aren't enough people around, who are able and willing, to put the man hours in, or no sufficient structure to bring new paddlers in (+retain them).
Blatant Plug: Got a club development project for slalom in England? Drop the Canoe England Slalom Committee a line!
Most of the money just ends up being spent on the performance side of the sport, which, while important, and short on money, is not our main aim.
This is my personal opinion, and not on behalf of the Canoe England Slalom committee
What needs to happen, as clubs, ism to look back at how they were successful before, and work out how to successfully
a) recruit new members, as groups, in a way that we'll retain them
b) retain the more experienced members; they are, or will be the coaches, who keep the club running and stick the club together
My personal belief is that this is a lot to do with the social aspects of the clubs, rather than just have a strong coaching structure; and by social that include both people paddling in groups with their friends, other events, races, fundraising, or just purely social events.
Dave: From Manchester Canoe club's point of view, we've had a few periods where we have had a couple of groups of juniors who've joined at the same time, who have stayed at the time (me being included in one of those groups!). What were the reasons for those groups staying, and becoming active members of the club, rather than everyone else?
And we are really struggling to spend the money on this! Nobody seems to want it, there aren't enough people around, who are able and willing, to put the man hours in, or no sufficient structure to bring new paddlers in (+retain them).
Blatant Plug: Got a club development project for slalom in England? Drop the Canoe England Slalom Committee a line!
Most of the money just ends up being spent on the performance side of the sport, which, while important, and short on money, is not our main aim.
This is my personal opinion, and not on behalf of the Canoe England Slalom committee
What needs to happen, as clubs, ism to look back at how they were successful before, and work out how to successfully
a) recruit new members, as groups, in a way that we'll retain them
b) retain the more experienced members; they are, or will be the coaches, who keep the club running and stick the club together
My personal belief is that this is a lot to do with the social aspects of the clubs, rather than just have a strong coaching structure; and by social that include both people paddling in groups with their friends, other events, races, fundraising, or just purely social events.
Dave: From Manchester Canoe club's point of view, we've had a few periods where we have had a couple of groups of juniors who've joined at the same time, who have stayed at the time (me being included in one of those groups!). What were the reasons for those groups staying, and becoming active members of the club, rather than everyone else?
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djberriman
- Posts: 806
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm
Re: Our sport is a mess
Ooo first I've heard of grants being available, nice to know!
Re: Our sport is a mess
Hi Mike
I think the reason why we have got juniors to stick is by generating a club atmosphere. To start with the reason why most (not all) juniors attend sessions is because they look forward to seeing their mates - what they actually do during the sessions is almost incidental. In order for this to work you need a critical mass. When I started the junior section 6 years ago we went in with a plan to recruit 18 juniors in three groups of 6. We have mostly managed to keep those numbers despite the usual comings and goings, and we are currently over-subscribed. We were fortunate in having enough coaches available to deliver this, I can see in a smaller club it might fall to a single person to pick up the reins, and the group is necessarily going to be smaller.
The lack of take up of the funding is something that should be addressed - lack of publicity might be something to address? (though I knew about it, Duncan obviously didn't). I think that the Canoe England Slalom Committee needs to be more pro-active in finding areas for the funding. I have long believed that no junior paddler should have to travel more than 30 minutes to their local training site - and that is in rush hour traffic. After all, they are all in school, and I'm sure that everyone will agree that their school work shouldn't suffer as a result of participating in a sport. The gaps need to be identified, and volunteers recruited together with provision of the facilities.
None of this is going to happen overnight, but an important start is to recognise the importance of clubs for the future of our sport, and prioritising them and supporting their volunteers above all else.
I think the reason why we have got juniors to stick is by generating a club atmosphere. To start with the reason why most (not all) juniors attend sessions is because they look forward to seeing their mates - what they actually do during the sessions is almost incidental. In order for this to work you need a critical mass. When I started the junior section 6 years ago we went in with a plan to recruit 18 juniors in three groups of 6. We have mostly managed to keep those numbers despite the usual comings and goings, and we are currently over-subscribed. We were fortunate in having enough coaches available to deliver this, I can see in a smaller club it might fall to a single person to pick up the reins, and the group is necessarily going to be smaller.
The lack of take up of the funding is something that should be addressed - lack of publicity might be something to address? (though I knew about it, Duncan obviously didn't). I think that the Canoe England Slalom Committee needs to be more pro-active in finding areas for the funding. I have long believed that no junior paddler should have to travel more than 30 minutes to their local training site - and that is in rush hour traffic. After all, they are all in school, and I'm sure that everyone will agree that their school work shouldn't suffer as a result of participating in a sport. The gaps need to be identified, and volunteers recruited together with provision of the facilities.
None of this is going to happen overnight, but an important start is to recognise the importance of clubs for the future of our sport, and prioritising them and supporting their volunteers above all else.
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SilverSurfer
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 1:09 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: Our sport is a mess
Hi
Just for clarification:
CESC receives a small annual grant which is spread across four key areas:
1) Subsidising unfounded athletes to attend junior and u23 world and euro championships
2) Junior development, which includes regional and national training programmes, and in previous years overseas training camps
3) Regional projects
4) Pan Celtic races
With regards to the regional projects, there is a representative for each region on the committee, and it is the regional representative responsibility to liaise with the clubs in their area to ascertain what projects are underway or in the pipeline that CESC could help fund.
To qualify for a regional grant, the project has to be something that benefits the region and canoe slalom, the grant is for 50% of the cost up to a maximum of £500.
As Mike points out there has not been a significant number of regional projects put forward in the past, with only 3 grants for this year so far. If you have an idea for your region then liaise with your regional representative, or contact CESC direct - contact details in the Slalom hand book.
Just for clarification:
CESC receives a small annual grant which is spread across four key areas:
1) Subsidising unfounded athletes to attend junior and u23 world and euro championships
2) Junior development, which includes regional and national training programmes, and in previous years overseas training camps
3) Regional projects
4) Pan Celtic races
With regards to the regional projects, there is a representative for each region on the committee, and it is the regional representative responsibility to liaise with the clubs in their area to ascertain what projects are underway or in the pipeline that CESC could help fund.
To qualify for a regional grant, the project has to be something that benefits the region and canoe slalom, the grant is for 50% of the cost up to a maximum of £500.
As Mike points out there has not been a significant number of regional projects put forward in the past, with only 3 grants for this year so far. If you have an idea for your region then liaise with your regional representative, or contact CESC direct - contact details in the Slalom hand book.
Re: Our sport is a mess
djberriman wrote:Ooo first I've heard of grants being available, nice to know!
Yes, this is something which I tried to put emphasis on at out last meeting - as the North West rep I emailed all of the active clubs in the region, nor sure what everyone else has done. I might fish out my old email and send it again as a reminder at some point.Dave B wrote:The lack of take up of the funding is something that should be addressed - lack of publicity might be something to address? (though I knew about it, Duncan obviously didn't)
However, this is still mainly my fault, I'm meant to be finishing off the website (which I originally built before we were ready), but I currently struggle for time to eat real meals when my girlfriend doesn't cook for me, & the last thing I can cope with when I've finished a day's programming, is to do some more. But, 3 weeks to the end of term, hopefully I can then get it finished
Re: Our sport is a mess
It seems to me that the amount of money on offer is tiny in proportion to the amount of money spent at the top end of our sport. We need to invest real money at grass roots level.
What is the source of this funding BTW?
What is the source of this funding BTW?
Re: Our sport is a mess
How do we invest money at a grass roots level? What can we spend it on, that would make a difference to the sport? Maybe it would be possible to make more money available if there was a way of spending it that seemed useful.
Manchester Canoe Club for example, has had a lot of money spent on boats etc. through grants. It is still possible to get hold of further grants like this, if we needed more money. I know from the time I've been there that this has made a huge difference, in getting people into the sport, that they have decent boats available, and are able to use them. And yet, this year, we seem to have very few ranked paddlers. I haven't been able to put together a whole inter-regional team, from the ranked paddlers in the North West, where's everyone gone?
Money alone isn't the answer. The question is, how do we invest it usefully?
I think what you're asking is whether we can provide enough money to set up some sort of structure for the grass roots of the sport? How do we put money in, in order to do this? It relies on volunteers, with time and energy to do this, set it up, run it, and advertise it. How do we do this? Or can we do any research into how people are retained within the sport? Does anybody have the energy to put John Sturgess's ideas and research into practice (which, I highly rate).
One separate idea, (and this is something that I think seems to work well in Wales), would some bigger clubs (S&S for example) benefit from having a team minibus? It may make it more affordable for people to get to races, and promote more of a team atmosphere. This is just an idea from things like being on football teams: are there any other lessons we can learn from other sports?
Manchester Canoe Club for example, has had a lot of money spent on boats etc. through grants. It is still possible to get hold of further grants like this, if we needed more money. I know from the time I've been there that this has made a huge difference, in getting people into the sport, that they have decent boats available, and are able to use them. And yet, this year, we seem to have very few ranked paddlers. I haven't been able to put together a whole inter-regional team, from the ranked paddlers in the North West, where's everyone gone?
Money alone isn't the answer. The question is, how do we invest it usefully?
I think what you're asking is whether we can provide enough money to set up some sort of structure for the grass roots of the sport? How do we put money in, in order to do this? It relies on volunteers, with time and energy to do this, set it up, run it, and advertise it. How do we do this? Or can we do any research into how people are retained within the sport? Does anybody have the energy to put John Sturgess's ideas and research into practice (which, I highly rate).
One separate idea, (and this is something that I think seems to work well in Wales), would some bigger clubs (S&S for example) benefit from having a team minibus? It may make it more affordable for people to get to races, and promote more of a team atmosphere. This is just an idea from things like being on football teams: are there any other lessons we can learn from other sports?
Re: Our sport is a mess
Manchester Canoe Club is in a strong position to attract grants, it owns its own site and it had Top Club status up to recently. This makes it easier to get grants, but doesn't mean it is a non-starter for other clubs. We are also very lucky to have someone in the club who is willing to put the time in to prepare the grant applications for us.
I honestly believe that we don't need a lot of help at MCC, my concern is that we are one of a tiny number of slalom clubs in the country who are able to offer the facilities and opportunities that we do. I strongly believe that if the sport is to go anywhere we need more slalom clubs with permanent training sites as a minimum, a proper club house and a gym are useful add-ons though. We are very lucky at MCC, and our good fortune is due to the efforts of members going back probably 50 years now. They had a vision of a club with its own training site. The current site was identified, and initially it was leased from the farmer, and the changing facilities consisted of an old caravan! Much of the initial funding from the site came from running successful slalom races - in those days it was possible to make a reasonable profit from races, soemething that is quite rare these days.
When the farmer retired we had the opportunity and the finances to purchase the land. This put is in a strong position to attract grants for a club house. We did get a significant legacy from Maurice Rothwell, one of our founder members, but we only had to dip into this for £10,000 because of the value of the "fighting fund" we had amassed over the years.
Strangely enough, before during and after the period where the club house was being built we went into a decline as a slalom club. There are various reasons for this, but the strongest was the change in the dynamic of kayak paddling in general brought about by the introduction of plastic boats. What changed was that I got fed up of coaching endless streams of beginners in kayaks only to never see them again. This was not good for the club as we were leaching members, and the numbers of available coaches was dwindling. I decided that the solution was to adopt (to a degree) the Staffs & Stone model of a slalom club. I set up a junior slalom section as a club within a club. The most important aspect of this was that the coaches committed to coach sessions every week, and we expected the same commitment from the paddlers. Apart from the obvious increase in slalom paddlers in the club I believe that it also gave a focus to the club and allowed it to prosper in areas outside slalom. Certainly we are a far more vibrant club than we were ten years ago.
As I have said, I think we are lucky at MCC to have what we have, but it is almost a bare minimum for a successful slalom club. Someone -whether this is the committee or GB Canoeing - whoever has the resources - needs to identify clubs that need some help to get into our position. They need to support the volunteers within the clubs and help them get the resources they need. Sometimes this may need some political negotiations, after all most of our river banks are controlled by private individuals, or even worse, fishing clubs. Furthermore regions without any slalom clubs or facilities whatsoever need to be identified, and volunteers and funding found to rectify the situation.
I think that this could be done with a full-time paid official. Money needs to be found to pay this person, and if it means one less coach at the top level, then if that is what is needed, then the decision should be taken. It has got to achieve more than simply handing down unrealistic targets to those few successful slalom clubs that do exist, putting yet more burden on the poor volunteer.
And finally the volunteer needs to be given a high priority. We don't coach in order to be dumped on from a great height, but I am sure that I am far from alone in feeling that is exactly what the situation is now. The professionals need to recognise the vital work that is done by the volunteer coaches, and give them support, and include them in any decisions that affect their athletes. Also they should be supported regarding their development as coaches - if the professionals aren't happy with the way that the volunteer coaches operate, they should be educating, not muttering behind their backs. And the professionals need to accept that sometimes the volunteers might actually know better than they do, however hard that might be to swallow.
So come on you lot - do something constructive for once. I know you are reading this.
I honestly believe that we don't need a lot of help at MCC, my concern is that we are one of a tiny number of slalom clubs in the country who are able to offer the facilities and opportunities that we do. I strongly believe that if the sport is to go anywhere we need more slalom clubs with permanent training sites as a minimum, a proper club house and a gym are useful add-ons though. We are very lucky at MCC, and our good fortune is due to the efforts of members going back probably 50 years now. They had a vision of a club with its own training site. The current site was identified, and initially it was leased from the farmer, and the changing facilities consisted of an old caravan! Much of the initial funding from the site came from running successful slalom races - in those days it was possible to make a reasonable profit from races, soemething that is quite rare these days.
When the farmer retired we had the opportunity and the finances to purchase the land. This put is in a strong position to attract grants for a club house. We did get a significant legacy from Maurice Rothwell, one of our founder members, but we only had to dip into this for £10,000 because of the value of the "fighting fund" we had amassed over the years.
Strangely enough, before during and after the period where the club house was being built we went into a decline as a slalom club. There are various reasons for this, but the strongest was the change in the dynamic of kayak paddling in general brought about by the introduction of plastic boats. What changed was that I got fed up of coaching endless streams of beginners in kayaks only to never see them again. This was not good for the club as we were leaching members, and the numbers of available coaches was dwindling. I decided that the solution was to adopt (to a degree) the Staffs & Stone model of a slalom club. I set up a junior slalom section as a club within a club. The most important aspect of this was that the coaches committed to coach sessions every week, and we expected the same commitment from the paddlers. Apart from the obvious increase in slalom paddlers in the club I believe that it also gave a focus to the club and allowed it to prosper in areas outside slalom. Certainly we are a far more vibrant club than we were ten years ago.
As I have said, I think we are lucky at MCC to have what we have, but it is almost a bare minimum for a successful slalom club. Someone -whether this is the committee or GB Canoeing - whoever has the resources - needs to identify clubs that need some help to get into our position. They need to support the volunteers within the clubs and help them get the resources they need. Sometimes this may need some political negotiations, after all most of our river banks are controlled by private individuals, or even worse, fishing clubs. Furthermore regions without any slalom clubs or facilities whatsoever need to be identified, and volunteers and funding found to rectify the situation.
I think that this could be done with a full-time paid official. Money needs to be found to pay this person, and if it means one less coach at the top level, then if that is what is needed, then the decision should be taken. It has got to achieve more than simply handing down unrealistic targets to those few successful slalom clubs that do exist, putting yet more burden on the poor volunteer.
And finally the volunteer needs to be given a high priority. We don't coach in order to be dumped on from a great height, but I am sure that I am far from alone in feeling that is exactly what the situation is now. The professionals need to recognise the vital work that is done by the volunteer coaches, and give them support, and include them in any decisions that affect their athletes. Also they should be supported regarding their development as coaches - if the professionals aren't happy with the way that the volunteer coaches operate, they should be educating, not muttering behind their backs. And the professionals need to accept that sometimes the volunteers might actually know better than they do, however hard that might be to swallow.
So come on you lot - do something constructive for once. I know you are reading this.
Re: Our sport is a mess
I read with interest Dave's comments and those of the other contributors. For me Dave has hit the nail squarely on the head with this quote. I have only been around the sport a few years and realise there are a number of people who have been involved for a lot longer. It seems strange to me that the sport has been around for so long, it was on tv when I was a kid - Paddles Up etc and yet hear we are 20 years on (hush now) and the sport feels in decline. WHY? What can we do differently that we are obviously not doing? On the back of the Olympics it would be an ideal time to seize the day.davebrads wrote:unless something is done our sport will continue its slow slide into what will be an embarrassingly small sport considering its Olympic status, and we will be drawing our future national team paddlers from a smaller and smaller pool of talent. We will have less and less events being run on a smaller choice of venues, and these will be concentrated in small pockets with ever increasing areas of the country having no access to our sport whatsoever.
I have my own views, some of which will no doubt be contentious (not that that has ever happened before!) but I would be interested to hear the views of others.
I think I see that there are less double Div 1's on the provisional calendar for 2014 and I personally feel that this only adds to the decline - parents and athletes are less likely to travel for a single, I know I am. I fail to see the reason for this, can someone enlighten me?
Personally I think that the Div 1 races should be geographically spread to encourage the growth of the sport. I also think that if we are insistent in having a limited number of doubles per year then that they should be done on a rota basis so that if you have one year, you may not have it the next.
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John Sturgess
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Gedling, Nottingham/Long Preston, North Yorkshire
Re: Our sport is a mess
Oh dear - I may be at risk of getting shot for repeating myself (for the last 12-15 years)
Over that time I have been saying that what is needed is a coach - or a group of coaches - or a parent - or anyone - to get a group of young people together, and say to them 'I (or someone) will coach you once a week if you commit to pushing your standard on rough water and much more importantly GO TO A LOT OF RACES'
And lots of people - as individuals and/or speaking for their clubs - have told me that this is not possible:in particular that there is no way of getting them to go to the races.
So: the practical experiment. Early in April (after Grandtully) I was asked to look at a group of young recreational paddlers who wanted to give slalom a go; and if it seemed appropriate, take them on.
I looked at 11, talked to them and their parents, and took on 7. Of those 7, 4 have been to lots of races (6/7 ranking races) and 3 have a bit of catching up to do on that front if they want to stay in the group.
6 weeks later, 3 are now in Div 2; and 3 others scoring well in Div 3.
My input has not been particularly onerous: one evening a week for 5 weeks, and most but not all of the races they have been to. The parents are rapidly learning to give them the coaching they need when I am not there. And their progress has very little to do with coaching expertise.
Interestingly, if they were a separate club, rather than part of a larger club, they would now be in terms of paddlers Div 3 and above the 8th biggest Junior Slalom club in England, and the 14th biggest in Great Britain (and higher than that if you look at the number of races done).
Or put differently, if 10 people had done the same, the Junior end of the sport in England would have doubled in size since Easter ... and if 3 people had done so from Bedford southwards it would have doubled slalom participation in that part of England! (The advantage of starting from a low base is that small gains are disproportionately significant)
Over that time I have been saying that what is needed is a coach - or a group of coaches - or a parent - or anyone - to get a group of young people together, and say to them 'I (or someone) will coach you once a week if you commit to pushing your standard on rough water and much more importantly GO TO A LOT OF RACES'
And lots of people - as individuals and/or speaking for their clubs - have told me that this is not possible:in particular that there is no way of getting them to go to the races.
So: the practical experiment. Early in April (after Grandtully) I was asked to look at a group of young recreational paddlers who wanted to give slalom a go; and if it seemed appropriate, take them on.
I looked at 11, talked to them and their parents, and took on 7. Of those 7, 4 have been to lots of races (6/7 ranking races) and 3 have a bit of catching up to do on that front if they want to stay in the group.
6 weeks later, 3 are now in Div 2; and 3 others scoring well in Div 3.
My input has not been particularly onerous: one evening a week for 5 weeks, and most but not all of the races they have been to. The parents are rapidly learning to give them the coaching they need when I am not there. And their progress has very little to do with coaching expertise.
Interestingly, if they were a separate club, rather than part of a larger club, they would now be in terms of paddlers Div 3 and above the 8th biggest Junior Slalom club in England, and the 14th biggest in Great Britain (and higher than that if you look at the number of races done).
Or put differently, if 10 people had done the same, the Junior end of the sport in England would have doubled in size since Easter ... and if 3 people had done so from Bedford southwards it would have doubled slalom participation in that part of England! (The advantage of starting from a low base is that small gains are disproportionately significant)
Re: Our sport is a mess
Our sport is a mess and detiorating rapidly................. 
Re: Our sport is a mess
I'm probably speaking out of turn given my limited experience and minimal time involved. However I have been through the whole process of being interested in slalom and trying to find a group to practice with. Luckily I found one last year, and now that group, Cheltenham, thanks to the grand efforts of Dave Potts and John MacLeod have now got slalom practice sessions going again at Symonds Yat, with the expressed aim of getting other clubs involved as well.
My experience of trying to get my club interested in slalom initially fell pretty flat, mainly because nobody was interested. It is all very well getting hold of money to throw at it, but this will be completely ineffective unless you can get people interested in doing it. This shouldn't just be focussed on youngsters either! That very focus on youngsters was what added to my difficulty of finding a group to practice with initially as many places I tried only ran club slalom sessions for juniors.
Frankly slalom is seen by many of the recreational paddling fraternity as being far too serious, elitist, not fun due to the perceived seriousness and gruelling bust a gut training, and with regard to youngsters it falls foul of the impression of pushy parents syndrome. Note that this is not my personal opinion. These are my observations of the opinions of the people I have spoken to while trying to generate a bit of interest in it, rightly or wrongly.
I feel that slaloms problems are not only due to the above impressions, but also:
- A total disconnect with the recreational paddling community. Paddling should be fun, and slalom needs to become part of "normal" paddling again like it used to be. This would be helped by getting recreational clubs interested, as well as getting slalom based clubs out on real river recreational trips as well. If your club only does slalom, how can you hope to attract people in general who might want to learn to paddle generally but not initially be interested in slalom or competition, but could perhaps with a bit of experience be brought round to the idea once they see the benefits?
- The lack of practice venues. But this could be solved if you could get general clubs interested again.
If you want more youngsters coming in, why not involve families at the grass roots? Instead of having mum and dad shouting at little Johnny from the sidelines as he busts a gut to please them, why not get them all paddling as a team instead?! This would make practice sessions more family friendly, and indeed the whole sport more friendly (notice that I used the word "practice" and not "training" which conjures up images of 7 day a week slalom practice, jogging, running, food supplements and all that palava).
Make slalom fun for families, make it interesting for the already experienced white water guys, get it introduced earlier for all beginners to help their paddling, and sell it to the non believers on the basis of how it will help their river running.
Slalom doesn't need money so much as it needs an image change and a way of marketing to the general paddler, and clubs who have never even considered slalom. Unless you can generate interest in it you can throw all the money in the world at it but it won't help.
All IMHO <fire retardant suit now on>
My experience of trying to get my club interested in slalom initially fell pretty flat, mainly because nobody was interested. It is all very well getting hold of money to throw at it, but this will be completely ineffective unless you can get people interested in doing it. This shouldn't just be focussed on youngsters either! That very focus on youngsters was what added to my difficulty of finding a group to practice with initially as many places I tried only ran club slalom sessions for juniors.
Frankly slalom is seen by many of the recreational paddling fraternity as being far too serious, elitist, not fun due to the perceived seriousness and gruelling bust a gut training, and with regard to youngsters it falls foul of the impression of pushy parents syndrome. Note that this is not my personal opinion. These are my observations of the opinions of the people I have spoken to while trying to generate a bit of interest in it, rightly or wrongly.
I feel that slaloms problems are not only due to the above impressions, but also:
- A total disconnect with the recreational paddling community. Paddling should be fun, and slalom needs to become part of "normal" paddling again like it used to be. This would be helped by getting recreational clubs interested, as well as getting slalom based clubs out on real river recreational trips as well. If your club only does slalom, how can you hope to attract people in general who might want to learn to paddle generally but not initially be interested in slalom or competition, but could perhaps with a bit of experience be brought round to the idea once they see the benefits?
- The lack of practice venues. But this could be solved if you could get general clubs interested again.
If you want more youngsters coming in, why not involve families at the grass roots? Instead of having mum and dad shouting at little Johnny from the sidelines as he busts a gut to please them, why not get them all paddling as a team instead?! This would make practice sessions more family friendly, and indeed the whole sport more friendly (notice that I used the word "practice" and not "training" which conjures up images of 7 day a week slalom practice, jogging, running, food supplements and all that palava).
Make slalom fun for families, make it interesting for the already experienced white water guys, get it introduced earlier for all beginners to help their paddling, and sell it to the non believers on the basis of how it will help their river running.
Slalom doesn't need money so much as it needs an image change and a way of marketing to the general paddler, and clubs who have never even considered slalom. Unless you can generate interest in it you can throw all the money in the world at it but it won't help.
All IMHO <fire retardant suit now on>
Re: Our sport is a mess
Simon you've found how few clubs currently take part in slalom. And also how few races there are, particularly in this part of the country. I spoke to Dave recently and yes it would be great to get Symonds Yat running again.
My club was fortunate in gaining a grant for boats a couple of years ago. We have hoards of kids doing Paddle Power but we struggle to gain any degree of cross-over. We continue to fret over this but one must is getting the parents involved. However, we currently have an older group of slalom paddlers. Mainly because of the grant we get a fair number turning up for "training" (yes we call it training) who don't actually race. Largely adults now paddling for fitness. This must tick a box somewhere within Sport England even though their target age group keeps changing.
My club does both slalom and river running. I understand your comment about a them and us attitude but ultimately in my club the best paddlers do both. We do have paddlers who turn their nose up at racing but they will be the first to get their chainsaw out to clear the trees and to provide safety cover. We ran our own "family friendly" team race two weeks ago. 10 teams. That's over 30 paddlers. Not all wil go on to enter a ranking event but some will.
Simon, I fear a lot of your comments on this thread and related stem from theory. They reflect the fact that you've never actually entered a race. Come to Langham Farm next weekend. I'm sure there will be other paddlers there from Cheltenham. We are unlikely to have a lot of water this year but there will be paddlers having fun and there won't be parents screaming down the bank - well not many.
My club was fortunate in gaining a grant for boats a couple of years ago. We have hoards of kids doing Paddle Power but we struggle to gain any degree of cross-over. We continue to fret over this but one must is getting the parents involved. However, we currently have an older group of slalom paddlers. Mainly because of the grant we get a fair number turning up for "training" (yes we call it training) who don't actually race. Largely adults now paddling for fitness. This must tick a box somewhere within Sport England even though their target age group keeps changing.
My club does both slalom and river running. I understand your comment about a them and us attitude but ultimately in my club the best paddlers do both. We do have paddlers who turn their nose up at racing but they will be the first to get their chainsaw out to clear the trees and to provide safety cover. We ran our own "family friendly" team race two weeks ago. 10 teams. That's over 30 paddlers. Not all wil go on to enter a ranking event but some will.
Simon, I fear a lot of your comments on this thread and related stem from theory. They reflect the fact that you've never actually entered a race. Come to Langham Farm next weekend. I'm sure there will be other paddlers there from Cheltenham. We are unlikely to have a lot of water this year but there will be paddlers having fun and there won't be parents screaming down the bank - well not many.
John Kent