6.10 Portable points proposal with a view to implement 2016

[Canadian Paddler]

Portable Points aim to consolidate and promote the extension of paddling opportunities that was introduced with Paddle Up. Paddle Up has encouraged paddlers to race at a higher division than their own, but the numbers taking up this opportunity are relatively small. This is due in part to the fact that there is not a straightforward method to award ranking points to accurately reflect the paddler’s achievement.
The proposed changes will award points for all paddlers in a class whether they are Host Division or Paddle Up and any points earned can be used to determine ranking and promotion. The proposal also includes moving events to be single division only. With the ability to Paddle Up and earn points directly the need to segregate divisions is removed and events can focus on providing the appropriate challenge for the level of the event. These single division events will still be attractive to competitors wishing to Paddle Up given the higher points and the increased challenge on offer.
In moving to single division events it is recognised that it may be more attractive for paddlers to Paddle Up and this may reduce participant numbers, especially at Division 3/4 events. It is critical that the entry level of the sport is supported and assistance given to Organisers to help manage financial pressures, and give greater freedom and creativity in hosting events in tune with encouraging participation in Canoe Slalom.
A video explaining the changes has been published on the Canoe Slalom website and it has achieved over 300 views. The proposal was also presented as a discussion paper at the 2013 ACM and included in the published documentation of the meeting. Consequently the following motion is presented for approval.
The ranking system will be amended for the 2016 season to reflect the following principles:
• All slaloms will be run for a single division, except Division 3/4 events which will remain to encourage new participants into Canoe Slalom
• Paddlers can compete and earn points in their current division, and the division above
• Points will be allocated on the basis of a maximum of 2,000 in Premier, 1,000 in Division 1, 500 in division 2 and 250 in division 3.
• Points allocation will be based on all ranking paddlers, whether host division or paddle up.
• Points are not lost on promotion, but retained until the end of the year.
• Veterans ranking will not be affected.
The slalom committee is tasked with providing appropriate 2016 rule changes and publishing them before the 2015 ACM.

[Nick Penfold]

Please discuss this, it's easily the biggest issue in front of the ACM this year. Don't ignore it because it's a year away.

[BaldockBabe]

A paddle up entry is not supposed to be accepted if there is a ranked paddler for that division who has got there entry in on time and the event has reached capacity. There have been a large number of events this year (at a number of divisions) that reached capacity far in advance of the 2 week deadline. Who gets priority if this motion gets through or is there no priority? I can see this being a particular issue at "Div 1" event.

Paddling up has already reduced the numbers of people willing to judge at events. Are we going to accept (as the rules permit) that paddlers will have to judge at events where they are racing. This rule has been utilised (including by me) but note that there are often complaints and/ or paddlers do not show up for their allocated judging time.


Yes, I have watched the YouTube video, I am open to change but I don't understand who this is intending to benefit, what "problem" it is attempting to resolve?

[CeeBee]

I agree with BaldockBabe. I can see how the mechanics of portable points works but I am unclear what benefit this has. Those new to the sport find grappling with the sport hard enough and I think this adds another level of complexity.

Currently we have Division 2/3 events at Fairnilee. These events are always 2 Division races with prizes for both Division 3 and Division 2.

By running these as Division 2 only, I foresee a couple of problems -
1. paddlers will need to realise that the event is suitable for Division 3 (which will not always be the case)
2. Division 3 paddlers will not win any prizes (which is a good incentive for success for what are mostly juniors)
3. Competing against mixed Divisions distorts the points - i think points should only be earned based on comparison with your own Division. (Those paddling up can earn points by comparing themselves to the higher division too but should not be included in the points calculation for the higher division).

I think this change will discourage Div 3 paddlers from entering this race. They are more likely to enter Division 3 only races where they perceive they have a better chance of success. The purpose of the ranking system is to take paddlers on a journey starting with easy fairly flat Division 4 slaloms so that they can race eventually at Div 1 and Prem. It is better for paddler development if racing evolves so that paddlers race in Division 3 at a Div 2/3 rather than a 3/4 as it takes them on the next step to harder water.

[Glen Pether]

It seems to me that the sole purpose of introducing the portable points system is to give paddlers that have paddled up some reward in the form of points even if they do not beat 40% of the paddlers in the division above them.

From what I have seen with paddle ups from div 1 to prem, the majority of paddlers that paddle up do so to get some experience in the division above them, tougher course etc. The other reason is to get some practice on a venue they are racing in div 1 the following day.

I think if you beat 40% in a paddle up, then you deserve 1000 points that can be applied to your 'best 5 results". if you don't beat 40%, then take something from the experience.

Also, as Baldock Babe said, with div 1's getting full weeks before the event, where is the space for all the div 2 paddlers to apply for entries?

What we have now is working well right?

[SilverSurfer]

The principal of what is being proposed is clear, but how many paddlers will it really benefit?

We should be more focused on developing paddlers to become better paddlers, than focusing on accumulating points as quickly as possible. If a paddler develops, becomes better over time, then by default they will accumulate points and move up their current division and eventually be promoted.

An exceptional paddler new to slalom would benefit from the proposal, enabling them to fast track the divisional system quicker than the current paddler up option. But in reality how many paddlers fit into this category, not many.

On the face of it we are proposing to change the system for the benefit of a few. I appreciate a lot of effort has gone into this, but if we want to change something about the current system, the focus should be on something that would make a difference to everyone - an on-line entry booking system.

The old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it !

[Phil Stevo]

I really cannot see what is to be gained by this proposal but there is a great deal to lose.

Any paddler wanting to develop themselves on more testing water can already paddle up without having to judge.

What will be lost will be the encouragement gained by youngsters that comes from winning trophies/promotions and a clear sense of progression.

This proposal will naturally push paddlers to enter the higher divisions that are already over subscribed and will create uncertainty about numbers (and therefore income) for the organisers of lower division slaloms.

[boatmum]

Agree with Silver Surfer this would benefit very few paddlers and it feels like an additional complication on top of what is arguably already a complex points system.

If portable points are a prelude to moving away from the existing ranking system altogether then I think it would be better to look at the system as a whole rather than at mulitiple bolt ons which inevitably make a system unweildly. As SS says I also think any material changes need to be made in context of all the paddlers

Just thoughts.

[Nick Penfold]

I have mixed views, but there are some things that need to be said in favour of the proposal.
- BaldockBabe is overstating the entries issue. A few events have been full early, but not many. And Div 2s, in particular, have a lot of races to choose from already.
- PP would open up good additional races to all paddlers (except Prem) and especially to Div 1s, who frankly are being offered a rather thin calendar for 2015. It would also make it possible to fill up start lists and make races more economic.
- It isn't really more complicated, it's just different. The present system is equally complicated to newcomers, and the current Paddle Up arrangements make it more so.
- PP would make it possible to think about introducing rolling rankings, so that having had a near miss on promotion you wouldn't be back to square one at the end of the year. While lists contain recently promoted paddlers who start with zero points in their new divisions, rolling rankings don't work.
What worries me is that PP is likely to damage recruiting and development of paddlers in Divisions 3 and 4. A lot of organisers currently running races as 2/3s would want them to be Div 2s, leaving us with too many Div 2 races and not enough Div 3 races. It's one thing to make Div 2s open to Div 3 paddlers, quite another to tell/reassure them that it's so. There is also an impact on promotion: the more races open to a given division, the more promotions there will be unless we push the targets up.
When we change the way things work, we can never foresee all the consequences. Paddle Up is a case in point: things are still coming out of the woodwork or being squared up three years in. That's not a reason not to change, just to be very careful when we do.

[SilverSurfer]

Portable points is a fundamental change to the current system, therefore, it should be a change that is beneficial to the majority of paddlers. Yes I can see some benefits, but not to the majority, such that I feel this is a change for the sake of change and not moving slalom forward.

[boatmum]

and especially to Div 1s, who frankly are being offered a rather thin calendar for 2015.

Have to say I'm a bit confused - there are potentially 18 races on offer for Div 1 in 2015


Cheers

[BaldockBabe]

I have mixed views, but there are some things that need to be said in favour of the proposal.
- BaldockBabe is overstating the entries issue. A few events have been full early, but not many. And Div 2s, in particular, have a lot of races to choose from already.
-

There are 18 Div 1 events on the calendar for 2014.

Just from a quick look at the Events board the following Div 1 events were closed in advance:

Shepperton (day 1) - 14 March
Shepperton (day 2) - 18 March
Tully (2 days) - 2 April
Trwerwyn (2 days) - 20 May
Washburn (2 days) - 17 June
Tees (1 day) - 7 September

If I recall correctly all the HPP events closed entried well in advance and the August Tully event (which did not close entries in advance) was well over subscribed with in excess of 260 entries. Although I will admit not all of these were in excess of 2 weeks in advance.

So, just from the board notices over 50% of the Div 1 events closed entries in advance and possibly another 6 if my memory is correct.

Furthermore, both Tully events have dropped the Div 2 next year due to numbers and the proposed HPP 1/2 has now also dropped the Div 2 due to numbers.

So there is a real issue to be answered. If this motion goes through should we be increasing the number of Div 1 events (and potentially P and Div 2) to account for the number of potential paddlers? If so, do we still keep the pyramid structure or is a it a free for all?, do we (attempt) to maintain a "standard" of water for these events or allow this to drop so the numbers increase (given the cost of a number of the venues)?, do we increase levies or drop timing/ section judges from Div 1 events as I am not sure the levies cover the costs (but someone else would need to look into this) etc. etc.

P.S. There are the same number of Div 1 events on the calendar for next year as there were for this year...

[Nick Penfold]

Yes, there are 18 events on the 2015 calendar. My concern is the level of challenge, not the number of races. Some of the best 2014 events - Teesside and the late-season HPP races - are not on the 2015 calendar.

Of the races that closed entry lists early this year, only Tryweryn and Washburn were one-division races. Shepperton was a 1/2, Tully was combined with a Div 2 on one day and a Pan Celtic on the other, and Tees was combined with the Junior and Senior Championships. The evidence that paddle-uppers wouldn't get a look-in isn't strong.

[boatmum]

Hi Nick

Just to clarify when you say

Of the races that closed entry lists early this year, only Tryweryn and Washburn were one-division races. Shepperton was a 1/2, Tully was combined with a Div 2 on one day and a Pan Celtic on the other, and Tees was combined with the Junior and Senior Championships.

Are you saying that the courses set for these races were not set to the standard of the higher ranked division. If you are then I think that is quite a serious assertion.

[stevepearson]

There seems to be a number of issues raised that overlay with the Portable Points

Promotions:
It looks like one of the benefits of portable points that paddlers that paddle up could get some points & better recognition (if thats the right word) from entering these races. But also that using results form 5 races the promotions may well reduce as better results would be required or more better results

Entries
It seems that there are more paddlers entering races, so if the race is just one division (as per portable points) then some of the lower ranking paddlers may not enter so the numbers could be manageable in the (or at least once the portable points is introduced) - there is an assumption in here!

Number of paddlers
Some paddlers go to every race, some just a few; and with more paddlers joining the sport (thats how it appears anyway) then its possible that there may be a point in future that even with only say Div1 entering Div1 then it could be oversubscribed.

Number of races
There are only a set number of races each year & higher ranked races are normally full


So in summary, a strategic view of the sport could consider much more than the change of portable points; and varying arguments will say that portable points it good or bad depending upon which side of the fence people sit.