Lower Divisions (3&4) - How Could Things be Improved?

[JimW]

These are really good points that organisers / slalom committee may have drifted out of touch with (for example, I would never have realised that there was a problem with practice at Stone if JoS hadn't mentioned it because I'm comfortable in a free for all like that).

I'm just wondering, what do the kids think?

Trying to remember, and I think I saw more non-competing parents upset about minor niggles, than I saw upset competitors, but on the one hand I wasnt paying a great deal of attention, and on the other there may be peer pressure to put on a brave face and then go to pieces in the car on the way home?

You will always get people who are just starting and will climb through divisions quickly to start with because they need to find their correct level, I'm not sure this is down to parents or coaches holding them back until they are at a standard to do this, I think it is just the luck of the draw. There is a mechanism to apply for direct ranking in a higher division, but I doubt if many kids would be able to show suitable experience of WW paddling, so they almost always need to do a div 4 even though they may clearly already be borderline 2/3 standard. It works in ther ways too, I have seen an event where the Div 4 K1M class was particularly weak, and almost all K1W got promoted because they beat them all directly, even though some of those girls probably weren't ready to take on div 3 right away (fortunately it was a late event so they will have had time to train through the winter).

For me the biggest problem at division 3 and 4 is consistency (and I'm sure others see it in higher divisions).
I did better than I should in my first couple of div 3 C1M events because they were not as well attended (or difficult) as some others I have done. Realising this I backed out of chasing promotion at the end of last year in case I was not ready for div 2. Part of my reasoning for entering Stone was that I expected it to be a more realistic, or tougher event (after all just look at the club's success over the years) than some of my local ones. It certainly brought me back to earth, even acknowledging that Dhanujah and Harvey are div 2 standard but have to start in div 3 and get promoted first, the other lads I was able to beat last year are already much faster, Tiff has gone from 6 seconds faster than me to 14 or 15 seconds faster.
So when picking events and setting your hopes, you need to consider various factors - do you want the instant gratification of doing well at an easy event, or do you want to work harder and feel like you really earned it? Obviously it is demoralising to be continually struggling especially if you can see that people you know you can beat have picked easier races and got ahead of you but I think perhaps we need to make sure the kids are thinking about a longer term plan and understand that getting promoted too soon could set them back more than just missing out a few times.

[JoS]

Jim W, are you the dude in the dry suit in the C1 who capsized in practice and then carried right on? Because you are awesome.

The non-TID kids who weren't paddling at their home river who talked to me were getting really frustrated with the practice situation. One came off crying.

[HPPaddle]

My 10 year old non-TID paddler was getting a bit frustrated about children sitting in eddies and preventing practice on certain gates at Stone. However, I recognise many of the TID children (easy to spot by their boats and kit) and in all honesty it wasn't TID children blocking free circulation during practice. They were also on and off before 10, leaving clear water for anyone who wanted to stay longer. My non-TID paddler stayed on after most people had left and got plenty of practice in. It's all in the timing and, like any practice, if you do it early or leave it late, there will be more space on the water. When has it ever been any different? Nothing to do with TID children in my view.

[paddlerparent]

Whatever changes are suggested, focus on it being fun. If u loose it at that level then div 2, and divv 1 will be painful and you will no doubt drop out

Control the controlable, and enjoy it

[baronhetzvanrental]

I'm a Div 3 adult paddler. I paddle for fun and to spend time with my family, who also race

I'd like to see online booking and paying for races. Some race organisers can't read entry cards and comment that they receive cheques that will expire before the race weekend. An online system would prevent this. Get rid of the cards and print out an appropriate replacement from the online entries that can be used by control on the day. I'd have no problem paying a small charge to cover the costs associated with this type of system.

An online system could also allow a couple of questions to be tagged on to help organisers with their own planning - how many people are coming, can anyone judge etc?

[Dee]

I'm a Div 3 adult paddler. I paddle for fun and to spend time with my family, who also race

I'd like to see online booking and paying for races.......

If you are thinking of coming to Shepperton then we are trialling online entries for ranked div 3 paddlers and above. See https://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk

[JimW]

Jim W, are you the dude in the dry suit in the C1 who capsized in practice and then carried right on?

Guilty as charged.

Because you are awesome.

I didn't feel awesome, I felt I had lost ground against the lads I raced at the end of last year!
Despite the changing room being so close, I'm not sure I could have warmed up enough to race if I hadn't been in my drysuit.

The non-TID kids who weren't paddling at their home river who talked to me were getting really frustrated with the practice situation. One came off crying.

Well, I'm sure if I didn't notice it, nor do the people running events (after all it is free practice and they don't usually manage it at all) so this is worth reporting.
What do you think could be done to help - maybe enlist a couple of better paddlers or coaches, and arrange a meeting point where independant paddlers can get together with them and train as a scratch group so they have sufficient presence to get a fair share of runs over each section?

[Nick Taylor]

Thanks for the inputs so far
We have a Slalom Committee Meeting coming up this Saturday so if you have any recent experience to share please post here or send me a direct message

I'm especially interested in opinions & experience from organisers of Div 3 or 4 events this year

[JoS]

It was the TID kids, O HPPaddle, I recognise their boats too the main problem was simply breaking in too close in front of or behind other paddlers, and that's a basic safety skill for any discipline they choose to go into in the future really, so everybody would get something out of it if their coaches sat down and had a word about that.

(If I'd known they were going to get off and warm up about 10 I'd have hung about for a turn then instead of getting changed! The benefits of hindsight eh?)

I had been wondering whether to drop the organisers a polite email asking to have official practice if they can, maybe I will do it after all now you've said that, JimW.

Your idea about getting the independents together is really good. It's easy for us odd ones whose mates and coaches have ended up at other races to feel kind of invisible sometimes!

[djberriman]

I believe Wagon Lane isn't allowed toilets due to planning regulations, they tried but weren't allowed.

As for official practice come to Howsham and you'll get one

It would be nice if all events stuck to their official practice times, at lots of lower division events its a free for all and and a bit of a bun fight, It causes long queues at get on and on the water and lots of catchups when people just go when they feel like it, the whole point of having it in bib order is to try and prevent catch ups. Obviously there has to be some flexibility for boat sharing and those doing multiple disciplines but would be really great if paddlers tried to take their run at the correct time.

[Nick Taylor]

Committee meeting this Saturday
Does anyone have Div 3 or 4 issues to raise?

[Dee]

Committee meeting this Saturday
Does anyone have Div 3 or 4 issues to raise?

Please could the committee look at some form of group insurance such that all entrants to ranking races from prem to div 4 ate covered for comp whether or not they are bcu members. Perhaps via a fixed fee for the event. Obviously particularly applicable to dig 4 (though also relevant for other divisions to cover officials etc)

[CeeBee]

I think all entrants are insured through the BCU/SCA club insurance from the club running the event. I don't think personal insurance is actually necessary at an event. I don't have personal insurance when I am out and about doing non canoeing activities or when I am doing river trips with other river users. There is no requirement for paddling judges to be members of the BCU/SCA to get judges runs either. Parents of paddlers at events who help are also not members of the BCU/SCA and don't need insurance to help.

I think individual insurance at events is a red herring as the organising club insurance is sufficient. What exactly would an individual need insurance for and how would you claim against them?

I think the issue is that you need to be a BCU/SCA member to compete in National ranking competitions which is fair enough as the BCU (but not the SCA) financially support the Slalom committee who have the delegated authority to administer slalom competitions in the UK.

We used to run an Open class at all Scottish events for non members. Or you could argue that Division 4 is not a ranking competition and so membership is not required until you are promoted to Division 3 and get a bib.

If you do a couple of taster events for £5 in Div 4 and don't have to pay a £5 day membership fee and like it, you will get promoted to Div 3 soon enough and join the BCU/SCA/WCA. Lets not fleece people for £10 to try slalom for the first time and put them off. (In Scotland, you do get the £5 day membership deducted of your membership when you join the SCA and the SCA administrator is kindly telling people this when they are paying for their membership).

Plus, it is yet another burden on already stretched organisers who are at the coalface and have to explain that people need to pay a £5 insurance fee, collect the fee and pay this to the SCA. Is it not enough that they are organising a Div 3/4 event in the first place which will hopefully generate long term members of the governing body?

[Dee]

I'm not sure whether you are for or against my request

My understanding is that we need all paddlers at an event to be bcu (or equivalent) members for them to be covered by the insurance; any non members therefore currently need day membership.

I don't believe club insurance covers events

I'm asking that the terms of insurance be renegotiated to automatically cover all entrants whether or not they are members so that we can do away with charging day membership at div 4 events




Or have I got this all wrong?

[lesf]

Juniors who are members of an affiliated club are covered by their club affiliation for Div 4 events. However adults who are members of an affiliated club aren't covered at Div 4 and have to pay the £5 event membership that covers entry level events.
I've always thought this very odd as our club has to pay a small (£2.20) fee to BC as part of our annual affiliation fee for any adult members that are non BC members, which we (and most clubs?) pass on to these adults, but then these adults have to pay again for taster events - in any discipline. For many years there was no similar small fee for Juniors, but I see this has been introduced recently to charge £1.20 per junior.

So if the club affiliation covers junior, it should cover adults.