Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
CeeBee
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by CeeBee » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:52 pm

23 C2s is the biggest start line I've seen, It was a challenge as they were all sharing the same boats but the kids had a great time.

These same kids were all doing K1, C1 and C2.

So, why did we get bigger entries? The charge for doing a double Div 3 is £13. If you then did Div 3 C1 and Div 3 C2 as well , it would be an extra £10 + £10. This would be £33 for the weekend which is far too expensive.

So, we only charged an extra £3 for a Scottish Schools C1 or C2 entry on top of the £13 making it much more affordable.

We plan to do the same next year for all the extra C1 and C2 entries.

harratts
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by harratts » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:03 am

With 9 Div. 2/3 C2 crews plus an extra 9 (or so) Div. 4 C2 crews who entered the Cardington event last Sunday I think that the answer to the question posed is 'Yes, C2 is definitely still viable as a ranking class.'

So long as it is not pushed into the sidings but supported in times to come with initiatives to encourage participation.

Long Live C2!
Steve

Mark H
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Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by Mark H » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:18 pm

Don't forget that there are the World Cup and European Championships as well as the Olympics
for C2's to go for along with the junior champs and the British Open.
Some of the above have in the past required a ridiculous percentage to be made to qualify
but the goals are out there. We need clubs to be pushing C2 crews and races to be free or have a go
sessions to be run in the lunch break or at the end of the day if we can get the safety crews to stop
on. This will have to be a grass roots revival as Britishcanoeing aren't interested in C2 at the moment!
Let's see what the policy's say regarding GB selection for C2's to find the real intentions, these are out in
December I think.
Maybe there will be a mixed C2 now that Triathlon has added another medal to there event with a mixed relay in the Olympics
Who knows eh.
It's great to Steve Harret still banging the drum for C2's as his encouragement to Ben and Finn
has been there from the very start and very much appreciated. Stafford and Stone encouraging HPPCC what ever next?
He might even buy me a pint!!!!

Mark H
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 am

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by Mark H » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:21 pm

Sorry meant to say now there is no Olympics for C2's

WindsorCC
Posts: 113
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Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by WindsorCC » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:29 pm

Ethan and I are doing a C2 judges run at Shepperton this weekend, and I'm sure will be back racing again in 2/3 next year when we get demoted! It was great at Cardington last year where there were eleven C2 crews on one of the days.

Ironically it looks like we might end up with a hardcore of regular crews made up of father's & son's (and hopefully more daughters, although not in my case...) and junior pairs who are happy in 2/3.

Prem is bound to drop off, as lots will get demoted at the end of the season, but few will get promoted as not many of the events are quorate so it's difficult to get enough points (although I see two crews have gone up this year).

I'm sure there are some crews who will want to race at P/1 who can't get direct access by nature of both already being ranked in Prem or Div 1. Could something be done around paddle-up points for C2, so those who do want to go up can get enough points from paddle-up to get promoted?

Feels like as well the International Panel need to have a look at the criteria for boats being selected for internationals, so those who are happy to self-fund get the opportunity. What's the harm if a self-funded crew goes to an international and comes last? It's still a valuable experience and seems a shame to see potential slots not being filled.

Paul.

Alison
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Location: Cheltenham

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by Alison » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:04 pm

Don't forget the C2 crews who were competing at Langham farm the same weekend as Cardington. There were 10 div 2/3 and 5 div 4 on the Sunday.

Reformed Boy
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by Reformed Boy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:55 pm

If C2 dies then many things will die with it.

The basic numbers of active C2 crews is the symptom of how C2 is perceived (as a joke / fun event) at probably the majority of clubs in GB - and this perception is now almost universal.
The final nail in the coffin of C2 will certainly prove to be the IOC decision to drop it from the Games unless BC and clubs do something about it.

If you look back at the old publications of Canoeing in Britain and then Canoe Focus and what we have now (CanoeSlalom website) it is overwhelmingly the case that good pictures of C2s in action (closely followed by C1s) always make the most exciting, inspiring and technically interesting snaps (with a few exceptions).

I have very mixed emotions when I see ad hoc or 'comedy' C2s in ranking races; it's good that C2 has a visibility but that visibility is at times demeaning the C2 (can't think of a better word) at the same time.

If you have ever paddled C2 seriously, as your main class, then you'll know it requires all of the skills and dedication of any other class and much more.
C2 demands skills, habits and attitudes that are non-existent in all other classes.

As a genuine question, what has all the recent boost in squads, training programs, TIDS and all the other schemes done for C2 below selection level done for securing C2 as a class?

I can see that part of the story here is that 'proper' C2 requires a serious commitment of time and effort that particularly young paddlers are equipped to give.

By the time such paddlers are 18 or so they've already become set in the class they're in.

So, is it worth saving?
The answer is a resounding YES.

There are some fairly obvious things that could be done to restore the class to where (I think) it ought to be but not the will at the right level (as far as I can see).

Will it survive?
I doubt it and that will be a great sadness and an even greater loss to our great sport.

WindsorCC
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Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by WindsorCC » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:27 am

Sounds like now is the time to start talking about any changes ready for an AGM proposal, if required.

There has been some talk about whether we have a single C2 division, with crews being able to enter any race they want with points awarded as per the host division, which works now with the new points model. That allows crews to do the mix of races that work for them, might be a few Div 1's, but then also some local Div 3's which helps keep entries up at lower divisions.

One potential issue is the risk of crews entering Prem races and using up slots, or causing safety issues, when they aren't ready for the water. I doubt that'd be a major issue, and the latter safety issue exists anyway with paddle up (on the subject of which, I've not heard of any safety issues with PU?), but it could be addressed by keeping Prem C2, as a target for the top few crews, but then bringing together 1,2,3. Keep Div 4 separate as well for the large number of crews who paddle together once and don't ever apply for a bib. That allows most crews to enter the majority of the races on the calendar, increases the number of entries so there will be more quorate races and crews can pick the water that they feel comfortable with.

Related to this, not sure how much influence the slalom committee have, but I think slots for international races should be opened up to self-funded C2 crews, probably still based on selection results (although not minimum performance standards), so there's still a reason to be progressing up through 1,2,3, into Prem and then internationally.

Anyway, just my thoughts, happy for everyone to wade in and point out the major flaws... :D

Reformed Boy
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Is C2 Viable as a ranking class?

Post by Reformed Boy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:36 pm

I will write to the IOC.
Any crumbs of ideas gratefully welcome.

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