6.15 Div 1 Practice

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Canadian Paddler
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6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Canadian Paddler » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:02 pm

Proposed by Strathallan CC seconded by Breadalbane CC
It has been observed that many Division 1 paddlers require significant course practice to master moves following course changes. It is also noted that at many Division 1 venues water time is limited so additional practice may not be available. It has been observed that many new Premier paddlers find the significant step change difficult to contend with as practice is not permitted. In order to try and rationalise the system and to promote more graded paddler development it is proposed to limit course practice at Division 1 events to a single official practice run. This will focus paddler development to include for race preparation in advance of promotion to Premier and should improve the transition. It should also encourage the potential for Officials entries at co-located races to provide additional water and race time. Page 68
UK 22.1.1 At Selection and Premier competitions there will be no training runs. At Division 1 only a single training run is allowed, in start race schedule. At Divisions 2 to 4 at least one run must be available additional training runs are permitted at the Organiser’s discretion.
UK C22.2.1 For each official training run it is necessary that:
• There be a specific person who is the general overseer and that the directions of this person are adhered to.
• The runs take place with start numbers and in numerical (start) order.
• They are carried out according to the competition rules.
• Usual safety precautions are observed.
• A Rescue Squad is in place when it is required.
• At Championship, and Division 1 competitions and at other competitions when so directed by the Organiser or the Chief Judge, each gate is negotiated once only. A second passage of a gate is allowed only when it is one of a combination of gates that constitutes a single technical manoeuvre so recognised and published in advance at Race Control by the Course Designer(s).
UK C22.3 Premier and Division 1 Competitors may practice on the course after the conclusion of the Race schedule their individual runs if time is available. At Division 2 to 4, periods for additional practice runs and free practice and procedures for the control of organised free practice must be detailed in the start list. Free practice is allowed at the discretion of the Organiser subject to adequate safety and control provision. During all practice there should be at least two persons supervising safety, one at the start to organise regular starts and at least one other along the course to ensure that full runs only are attempted where required by the rules or by the Organiser.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
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WindsorCC
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by WindsorCC » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:51 am

My concern about this is around new paddlers coming into Div 1 onto new water, with much more travel involved, usually with little experience on the water.

The amount of travel involved in Div 1 is difficult already for southern paddlers, many aren't going to be able to go and do training camps on Div 1 water in advance, so rely on traveling to a race a day or two in advance to paddle the water, which wouldn't be an option as courses are often set in full or part several days in advance. Removing free practice is going to make the transition from Div 2 to Div 1 far more difficult, especially as Div 2 paddlers going up to 1 may not have paddled anything bigger than Cardington.

I accept there's another big leap from free practice to no practice, but those going up from Div 1 are really solid paddlers with a good couple of years+ experience on Div 1 water, often having done officials/paddle-up at Prem races, and with a level of commitment already that usually involves regular training on Prem water.

I suspect removing free practice from Div 1 will result in more paddlers dropping out when they get to Div 1, than the number who would drop-out at Prem because they struggle initially with no practice.

Anyway, that's my 10p worth, happy to hear any other opinions!

JimW
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by JimW » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:47 am

WindsorCC wrote:especially as Div 2 paddlers going up to 1 may not have paddled anything bigger than Cardington.
I think this is part of the problem that is trying to be addressed. This year we have had division 2 races at HPP, Lee Valley Legacy and Grandtully, so div 2 paddlers have had opportunities to paddle on bigger water, if some are choosing not to and instead picking races they can easily win to get promotion without gaining experience, they are probably the same paddlers who are already struggling to adapt to div 1 courses. They either need to spend more time in div 2 experiencing different venues and different water levels, or adding more variety to their home venue training so that they prepare themselves better for adapting to different gate configurations.

Free practice is not mandatory for any event. Div 2's can already try racing with official practice only if they enter one of the Washburn races - there simply is not enough water time to have free practice, so we all walk the course as it fills up, then take 1 practice run and try to work out our best race strategy from that. It doesn't have to come as shock when you get to div 1.

Paddlers are less likely to drop out if they have the right expectations from the start, i.e. knowing that practise time on the race course will ramp down as their ability ramps up.

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davebrads
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by davebrads » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:18 am

I don't see the benefit of this rule change. Newly promoted paddlers benefit from spending more time on the course, those with ambitions of promotion will be better off saving their energies and using their time watching others practice.

Dee
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Dee » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:16 pm

There could also be issues with policing at some venues where courses may go up in advance
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Princi
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Princi » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:05 pm

My view is that all courses should be given a grade. Some courses may need a couple of grades, for example, Tully could be graded on the water level around the bottom rock, pumped courses graded around the number of pumps being used etc. etc.
Promotion through the divisions could then be linked to a "race passport" which only allows promotion once certain grades have been paddled on and points have been acquired towards promotion at different grades i.e. you couldn't get promoted having paddled on the lowest/easiest grade of water all season. In my opinion, this may slow progression down and help paddlers be at a more suitable level for the next division. I would also suggest that promotion from division 4 should be after a minimum of one race on flat water and one race on moving water - development of new paddlers is key.
The other advantage of grading courses is that they are deemed appropriate for the level of the host division as agreed by a race panel each year.
Just my thoughts whilst taking a break from work to enjoy a cuppa and a custard cream!

rose
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by rose » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:20 pm

I think paddlers should be encouraged to have as much water practise as possible; some div 1 are just getting as much out of the venue as possible whether it is race result or experience; why not get extra time on the water when you have travelled to the venue.

lesf
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by lesf » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:57 am

I believe we run races for paddlers, so why are we trying to restrict how much they can paddle when they have gone to the effort and expense to come to events?

Those outside slalom often say the limited amount of actual paddling time in the day is a big reason they don't do slalom. If we further restrict time on the water it will put people off - I know we are talking about this for Div 1's, but there will be people in Div 1 that decide not to bother anymore if they only get 6 x 100sec (ish) over the weekend when they have previously had free practice.

djberriman
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by djberriman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:29 pm

I don't see what this is trying to achieve.

How will you police the time between course setup (sometimes says in advance) to the race day?

Many paddlers travel long distances and value being able to paddle the day before on the course or on the saturday evening not only to practice but to get some value for money.

Many paddlers have no access to moving water of even better moving water with gates of any standard let alone div 1 standard. Thus any extra practice time is invaluable.

IF paddlers want to improve their transition to prem then they can happily opt for just 1 practice run or indeed none.

Please remember the vast majority of paddlers never make prem, the focus should be on all paddlers not just what you might call the elite otherwise you won't have a sport.

I for one would seriously consider giving up racing at many venues, if not completely, why would I want to spend hundreds of pounds and whole weekend for 9 minutes (or more like 12 in my case) on the river?

It's already hard to convince parents that slalom is value for money, this will make that task harder.

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Phil
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Phil » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:10 pm

I agree with both sides of this discussion. I think allowing plenty of free practise on previous days is great as is limiting practise to one run. I enjoy paddling the day before at a race to maximise water time and remind myself what I'm supposed to be doing.
How about erection of a training course to allow unlimited practise and then making a few changes to provide a race course that is limited to one practise run. This hopefully could allow for both outcomes without to much work for the organising club.
Phil Gooding

Dee
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Dee » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:14 pm

Phil wrote:I agree with both sides of this discussion. I think allowing plenty of free practise on previous days is great as is limiting practise to one run. I enjoy paddling the day before at a race to maximise water time and remind myself what I'm supposed to be doing.
How about erection of a training course to allow unlimited practise and then making a few changes to provide a race course that is limited to one practise run. This hopefully could allow for both outcomes without to much work for the organising club.
Phil Gooding
In a sense, I think this happens anyway as changing water levels usually dictate course adjustments on the day of the race. Anything more that this means a need to define what "a few changes" are. :wink:
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Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Seedy Paddler
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by Seedy Paddler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:35 pm

Basis behind the proposal is to provide a more graduated approach to paddler development, currently we race kids through the ranks to Prem than find they can't read water don't know the course and struggle. Trying to counter this and introduce a level of course management for Div 1 in preparation for development to Prem. Also to rationalise across events and try to standardise, Pinkston; Washburn; Teesside; HPP; Chapel Falls already struggle to provide additional water time other than basic practise, they also tend to be fairly popular so I don't believe it will impact on number attending if we rationalise to single practice run at Div 1 level.

It will also benefit the Organiser; course may be set late Friday avoiding requirements for a day off work to set-up courses for Friday evening practice. Venue with established training gates - Grandtully; HPP; Tryweryn; Pinkston; Teesside; Llandysul etc may still be used with training set-up for those that wish to travel early prior to setting the race course. Those travelling early to practice on the water may even consider helping the organiser to set the race gates.

As for policing - the only folks that should be on outwith organised practice would be the officials so they get issued with an officials bib and number that must be worn when on the water. Maybe attract more officials as they can get some quality water time and may even get some coaching from Div 1 paddlers and coaches.

Remember this was standard in the 80s-90s when slalom numbers were much larger than today, we have a current bottleneck at Div 1 and we need to try to ensure that progress is managed and structured to support young paddlers. As for restrictions through travel as someone who will regularly travel to Tully (2 hours); Pinkston (3 hours); HPP (7-8 hours) and Lee Valley (10-12 hours) for training as well as requirements to race in Llandysul and North Wales, this will have minimal impact as for many of the free courses we will not be onsite until early evening even when we do take additional days off school and work.

Craig Douglas

SilverSurfer
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by SilverSurfer » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:59 pm

Basis behind the proposal is to provide a more graduated approach to paddler development, currently we race kids through the ranks to Prem than find they can't read water don't know the course and struggle
Maybe if we stopped trying to fast track kids to the prem division with paddle up and portable points, and they spent more time learning to paddle/read the water before being promoted, it wouldn't be a problem for them. A self inflicted problem in my opinion.

John Sturgess
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by John Sturgess » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Sorry, but those arguments are self-cancelling. The reason why young paddlers 'can't read the water don't know the course' is not because we fast-track them into Prem - on the contrary it is because unlike every other slalom nation we use our Divisional system to stop paddlers racing the races they want to race: so they cannot learn to race on Prem courses until they are in Prem. You do not learn to 'paddle/read the water' on difficult courses by paddling on easy courses.
In the Czech Republic, for instance, they race in ranking order not in reverse ranking order; so the eleven-year-olds run down the course cheering for Vavra or Jurgi, then get on and race the same course, trying to emulate them.
These young paddlers are not just paddling to get promoted - it is for most of them a by-product, certainly until they get to the top of a division - they race because they enjoy racing; and they want to race on difficult water because it is more fun.
The rest is about making life easier for officials etc: OK, but not if it involves limiting opportunities for participants. Ask yourself what Aldi or Lidl does when they find that their shops are getting too crowded (clue: it does not involve having to qualify to come in!)

CeeBee
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Re: 6.15 Div 1 Practice

Post by CeeBee » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:48 pm

I like the idea of racing in ranking order rather than reverse ranking order. This would be good to do at some events and would certainly help the higher bib numbers see the better paddlers in their class race first. I presume this would need a motion to the 2017 AGM to do.

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