BC in the News

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
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Seedy Paddler
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BC in the News

Post by Seedy Paddler » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:41 pm

Not what we want to read, also query why nothing has been raised or published considering we are forever being advised on Governance requirements - good governance is effectively good and open communications between those making the decisions and the electorate to whom they are accountable! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/canoeing/39450595

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davebrads
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Re: BC in the News

Post by davebrads » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:21 pm

The only elected official in British Canoeing is the president and they recently tried to remove that post. It is a long time since there has been any real accountability to their membership.

BaldockBabe
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Re: BC in the News

Post by BaldockBabe » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:55 am

Isn't this more of an issue of employer/ employee confidentiality? The report states that investigations are still ongoing which indicates that there are matters still to be resolved.

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boatmum
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Re: BC in the News

Post by boatmum » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:56 am

I would agree with Baldockbabe, currently this is an employee/er issue as such not for public discussion. What would constitute good communication is after all procedural avenues have been exhausted and an outcome arrived at a review of the processes and procedures currently in place is carried out to see if improvements or changes in process need changing in light of the current situation.

I suspect that the Beeb is raising this in conjunction with other similar situations in other performance sports. The overriding question for all sports - not just canoeing - is whether the UK Sport funding structures actually encourage these types of welfare issues, because of the competitiveness for the available funding between disciplines.

It is interesting to see how other countries fund their performance athlete groups. Many appear to manage funding so that athletes are competing with each other for a place on the team and not having to worry about competing for income.

The same is clearly true for coaching staff hence the pressure to "perform".

Might be time for a rethink for UK Sport.

The Watcher
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Re: BC in the News

Post by The Watcher » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:49 pm

There are two issues at play 1) the approach to funding which is driven by medals and the Olympic cycle (which then pressurises the need to develop medal hopefuls and puts all staff at risk every 4 years) & 2) the wrong behaviours that develop in coaches, paddlers (& sometimes parents) on 'programmes' in particular as a direct consequence of the above.

We're all aware that in elite sport behaviours can be seen as selfish, brutal sometimes to get to the top, and whilst that can be accepted to a degree, it's not accepted when behaviours of anyone involved in the sport hurt or damage those who just want to paddle and discover their own limits.

In our sport the demographics I think would suggest the vast majority are 'young' mixed with the still joyful and enthusiastic 'old' - certainly those on programmes fall into the young, and very young category and it's those paddlers I feel most sorry for when stories like this about welfare and behaviours emerge. There is always some truth in there, it's not always the case of sour grapes from 'overlooked' athletes. The psychological damage sticks with them, the behaviours that result are carried into later life (for both those who win or lose in the experience), the scars can outweigh the fleeting highs that perhaps only the very top echelon every achieve consistently, the joy of the sport gets completely lost in 'Olympic fever' and for what? 2 or 3 medals where it's usually only the Gold who gets remembered (who came 2nd in K1M at the Olympics - ask the person next to you and they'll ask is it something to do with skiing....)

So from my perspective 1) it's good that these issues are being aired 2) transparency and openness may drive some long needed changes in behaviours and funding approaches & 3) maybe some of the damage can be undone or, at the very least, future damage to our youngsters in particular can be avoided altogether by being brave enough, and organised well enough, to address cultural and behavioural issues in a way that the world outside sport has been addressing for the last 10 years at least. BC is way behind the times in that sense and has not recognised the issues that have been developing for a number of years now and have accelerated as new programme centres have opened. Transparency and openness however needs to move up the BC 'code' agenda.

My biggest fear is that self interest and protection of funding will override the good that could come and we will continue to see the bad aspects dominate to the overall detriment of the many to support the fleeting 'glory' of the few. I do like to see GB win medals but having seen how they can be achieved leaves a sour taste sometimes which is truly sad.

That said - the Brownlee brothers are inspirational (carrying your brother over the line brought a tear) but even they stepped outside of their 'programme' having experienced some of the bad behavioural stuff I mention above. I do hope that whatever emerges makes the sport stronger and doesn't simply get put back in the murky depths of the BC barrel free to continue souring more good apples. :(

The Watcher
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Re: BC in the News

Post by The Watcher » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:19 pm

See Daily Mail today - just how bad can things get with headlines like sex for selection!!! This is looking worse than the cycling and no doubt more will come out as the ongoing disciplinary? Is finalised - is it one bad apple or a systemic problem that is being brought into the light of day? Sunday papers will splash this in the middle of selections this weekend too which is a real shame for the sport overall.

Arrowcraft
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Re: BC in the News

Post by Arrowcraft » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:33 pm

There are too many self serving and funded groups that operate on a private members club basis with the public performance program funding. If you start off on a TID you are more likely to be accepted into a funded program. I can think of 4 or 5 young athletes that are out performing squad athletes that were not accepted into the squads, but kids that are developing slower are placed, almost hand picked into the squads from TID and RTA programs.

The problem seems to be the same people running TIDs and squads. Both funded. If the measure of success is how many TID's get into RTA and then SRA then ENTS then the conflict of interest is clear. Funding for one depends on progress through the system. Is it simply a box ticking exercise for some other reason?

I learned today of 3 juniors from TID that have been through the squads that are talking about quitting as they have not made selection at the first try...Why is this? They have exhausted the ENTS and SRA and have to move out of the programs, to make way for those coming through. Can they cope without the coaching and support that they have received so far? Maybe or maybe not.

The TID and squads systems are good and I support them completely, but they do not seem to be offering a straight game. If being good enough is not enough to get you into the squads then what is the point of them? If the kids all drop out at the age of 17 /18 then what is the point of them? If they have to rig it so good and fast developing paddlers are denied access in favour of slower developing paddlers (despite the massive coaching they received) then what is the point of them? At the end of the day, they will fail, unless they are completely honest with themselves rather than tracking budgets. GB have lost athletes to other nations because of this in the long past, recent past and this year.

The kids joining the programs are pumped full of nonsense, rather than just taught to paddle and race...It's all too serious and there seems to be no fun it. Only 1 boat can go to the Olympics...So again...if there's no fun in it and it's not capturing the fastest developing athletes and the kids drop out in their teens when they miss J18 selections or retire in their early 20's...When they miss J23 selection...What's the point of it? Do the TID and squad systems help kids in our sport or do they do more harm than good in the long run?

CeeBee
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Re: BC in the News

Post by CeeBee » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:48 pm

The TID program has been very successful and its success is generating new issues which need to be overcome.

Contrast this with the abolition of the equivalent Scottish TID program 4 years ago and the Scottish squad is down to 4 paddlers who came through the TID system with no newcomers to Scottish squads in recent years. You have to be good enough now to get into a squad before you will be coached by which time the TID kids have been professionally coached and are well ahead. I also understand that the Scottish performance director is no longer even living in Scotland. At least the TID investment is generating new good paddlers unlike the SportScotland investment to the SCA.

The Watcher
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Re: BC in the News

Post by The Watcher » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:19 am

The TID, SRS and ENTS programmes are obviously working judging by the selection results at the weekend although it must be galling to non Lee Valley paddlers to have to cope with home course bias! Tough enough for those who have to travel far and then realise your fellow competitors have practised virtually every move for months on the same water. Would be fairer to spread selection around the big courses perhaps to even out the field? That's a BCU issue to manage but it does feel more than a little unfair. That said the sport is all about handling pressure and delivering no matter the conditions but home advantage must play a part in the psyche whilst sat in the start pool.

Ps saw the strangest thing over the weekend - a LV coach being 'minded' all weekend - quite a few people speculating and asking what's going on there? Good use of our membership fees! What is going on BC?

paddlerparent
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Re: BC in the News

Post by paddlerparent » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:17 am

Speculation & idle chit chat on an level is unhelpful and quite sad - feels like where this thread is going.............. how about - Keep to the subject or start a new thread if you wan to moan or whinge!

Arrowcraft
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Re: BC in the News

Post by Arrowcraft » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:00 pm

The point about selection at the weekend is a good one. But if the previous contributors points are taken on board would the success of the Lee Valley TID/RTA/SRA/ENTS be reversed if selection had been at HPP? Possibly. The decision to hold all three races at one venue has skewed the results a little I suspect.

So is this an example of box ticking. The pressure on team and squad athletes to move to London has been well talked about. If this is where the coaching is, the teams train and the London TIDs etc train everyday (almost exclusively as it is nearly impossible for others to get onto LV to train)...then the selection results might easily be used to justify or enhance the pressure on athletes to move to London. How will these athletes get along in better water rather than the shallow, boiling, surging mess that LV has become? Selection needs to be at different venues to be representative of ability on all water.

It is this type of thing that IS damaging the kids in our sport. This is why people are leaving at such an early stage. The schemes are great, but how do we treat the 99% kids that fall off the programs or are not even allowed into the system program they did not start out in a TID? How do you explain that being good enough is not enough to a 15 year old boy that is denied access when people he beats week in and week out are kept in? Or a 17 year old girl that has trained all year for selection only to find that it is all on the same venue and the people she needs to beat have been training there all year...but she has only been able to get on a handful of times. It is mentally damaging to them and it is not OK to do this. The ends do not justify the means, because any one of these athletes would race better on LV if they were used to it's very peculiar nature. The ends are being used to justify poor and damaging decisions that could be interpreted as " tipping the balance of probabilities."

Macca
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Re: BC in the News

Post by Macca » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:20 am

Good points but wrong thread - deserves its own line of chat about how best to select the best of the best. Bear in mind the need to test mental strength as well as sheer natural water skills over 3 days, factors which go some but not all of the way to evening out home advantage. Apologies for adding to thread going awry! Not a whinge or a moan - just seems to fit rant and rave page?
I used to be paranoid but now I know everyone is watching me....

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