Online Entries - The Future - Have your Say?

[Dee]

Based on the reactions I've received, I think that online entries are here to stay. However, no system is perfect, so what do you want to see going forwards:

• Organisers that haven't used it this year: Will you use it next year, if not, is there something we could do that would make you change your mind?
• Organisers that have used it: What's missing? what did you find difficult? What would improve your experience?
• Paddlers: What would you like to see added? If you haven't used it what puts you off? What annoys you?

Caveats:

• Just because you ask here does not guarantee you'll get it, but if there is demand I will at least add to the pot of possibles. If you don't ask I will never know!
• Transaction fees are non-negotiable

PS You are allowed to moan, but nicely please!

[Dee]

Running Summary of Thoughts So Far - Please feel free to add a plus one to those that are important to you:

• Login Process Avoid having to go through the email route everytime.
• Streamline Promotee Entries - Believe resolved - From 2018 the ranking system will automatically allocate bib numbers which should mean that promotees can enter within a couple of days of achieving promotion.
• Champs/Pan-Celtic/Opens and other oddities. - partially resolved - but I suspect more may be needed. However requirements not really clear.
• Card production. - Done - System creates a pdf for printing. Organiser has option to print to blank card or to pre-printed cards.
• Multi-Class-Discount. - Resolved - Removed at ACM so no longer needed. C2 discount has been added to system.
• Integration with Simply Slalom. - Done - There is now a button to export from canoeslalomentries and a button on simply slalom to import.
• Div 4 Extension. - Mostly done (C2s outstanding) - Organisers can already add div 4 postal entries - Option for div 4s to register and enter online is now available along with a sign in sheet to help manage bc membership checking, risk statement signing and bib allocation.
• Keep Records of Removals. - organiser now has option to record as cancellation even if paddler on waiting list - removals only needed to allow change from postal to online - We currently record cancelations once payment details have been provided, but not removals where paddlers are on waiting list. For analysis of trends would be useful to track removals.
• Improve Promotion Management. - Done. - Organisers can update promotees details to the new bib - an rtc flag is automatically added to collect extra payment on the day, where appropriate. Waiting list promotions will appropriately update the paddler's position on the list.
• Allow card details to be changed. - Done - more payment info provided via My Accounts with option to update card details for a given payment

[Nick Penfold]

Personally I don't like the "deferred payment" factor on entries for several months ahead. I'd rather my card was debited then and there.

[CeeBee]

I like the deferred payment option. To me this is no different to the way many organisers worked using snail mail in that they banked the cheques when it suited them which was often shortly after the event.

Would competitors find it useful to go in and see a summary of the events they have entered and the cost due along with the expected payment date?

[Seedy Paddler]

We had a problem in that following promotion you need to wait until the Bib officers have updated the database and it has been re-uploaded. Hence it would be a Div 1 entry for a Prem and so PU and not priority, we sent mail entry and emailed organiser but mail entry arrived after the priority date and was refused as event was filled with paddle ups and hence regarded as late and a full event.

The email and entry were sent on the Thursday, priority ended the Friday the card and cheque arrived Tuesday/Wednesday and the database updated on the Thursday - when we were able to enter remaining prem races.

NB Online site shows accepted entries lacking payment, which demonstrates an issue of when is an entry accepted ?

Can the system be set-up to select NP, with manual entry of paddler details so an entry may be processed and then updated once database update is available?

Regards

CD

[JimW]

Would it be possible for competitors to get a permanent login so we don't have to get a new code each time we want to check our entries or enter a new event?

[WindsorCC]

As a paddler I love it, would be great if it were used at more events, happy for money to be taken whenever, and agree with Jim that it would be great if we could have a permanent log-in.

Massive thanks from me for all the hard work on the system, it really is appreciated!

Paul.

[JoS]

CeeBee: yes, I would find it very useful to be able to check what I had already entered online, I am very forgetful!

[Dee]

Personally I don't like the "deferred payment" factor on entries for several months ahead. I'd rather my card was debited then and there.

I like the deferred payment option. To me this is no different to the way many organisers worked using snail mail in that they banked the cheques when it suited them which was often shortly after the event.

Would competitors find it useful to go in and see a summary of the events they have entered and the cost due along with the expected payment date?

CeeBee: yes, I would find it very useful to be able to check what I had already entered online, I am very forgetful!

Deferred Payment
Sorry to Nick, but this is here to stay. The card payment provider (Stripe) will only hold payments in the club Stripe accounts for a month. So, if we take your payment immediately then we would have to pay it out to the club bank account within a month. Then, when a competition is cancelled/part-cancelled (as for Washburn) we wouldn't be able to process refunds through the system.

Entries Summary
Ummm! Have you seen https://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk/ye ... my-entries. I think this gives you most of what you are asking for - it lists your entries and states whether payment is pending or whether it has been paid. It doesn't give the date the payment will be taken or the amount though - if you think about it the amount per entry varies depending on number of events entered over the weekend, so not as easy to do.

"My Entries" is available on the confirmation page (immediately after payment details accepted) and on the main menu bar (when you are logged in). Does it need to be more prominent?

I could possible look at an individual payments summary that showed you payments, status, amount, date due to be taken, amount refunded etc, but there needs to be sufficient demand to justify this

[Dee]

Would it be possible for competitors to get a permanent login so we don't have to get a new code each time we want to check our entries or enter a new event?

....and agree with Jim that it would be great if we could have a permanent log-in...

In theory, once you are logged in you should stay logged in until you:

• Click the logout button OR
• Clear your cookies

However, Something that causes issues with some users........ When we send you the login email and you click the link, you will be sent to your default browser regardless of where you started. So, suppose you use Chrome to open http://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk, but have Edge set as your default browser. Then by clicking the link you will login to canoeslalomentries on Edge. Next time around you would be able to open the system on Edge without going through the process, but you go back to Chrome and the process repeats. To fix this:

• Set your default browser to be the one that you use OR
• Next time you login, right click the link and manually copy and paste into your preferred browser

Having said all that, I will add this to the list as something to consider. I will say that we are reluctant to start going down the password maintenance route (a security minefield), but we might be able to look at options to login via Facebook or similar. This would not mean we get access to your facebook page, just that we would be using facebook's authentication process to confirm it's really you. (This isn't limited to facebook: we could equally look at Amazon or Google processes)

[Dee]

We had a problem in that following promotion you need to wait until the Bib officers have updated the database and it has been re-uploaded. Hence it would be a Div 1 entry for a Prem and so PU and not priority, we sent mail entry and emailed organiser but mail entry arrived after the priority date and was refused as event was filled with paddle ups and hence regarded as late and a full event.

I think there are multiple factors here to do with the whole process around post-Promotion Entries. The problem you are describing is not inherent in online entries alone as it probably started with the concept of PU and priority entry. I do sympathise though and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't use online-entries as a driver for change.

We had a problem in that following promotion you need to wait until the Bib officers have updated the database and it has been re-uploaded.

The uploading happens within a couple of hours of bib officers updating the ranking database, so I don't think that hold-up is significant, but recognise that the requirement for manual input from the bib officers (they after all human volunteers who have their own life to lead) does cause a delay. This didn't really cause an issue prior to online entries, but does now.

The email and entry were sent on the Thursday, priority ended the Friday the card and cheque arrived Tuesday/Wednesday and the database updated on the Thursday - when we were able to enter remaining prem races..

Playing devil's advocate Why not send off the postal entry on the Monday immediately after promotion rather than delaying until Thursday? (I'm guessing that you were expecting to be able to enter online and were caught out be the delay

Can the system be set-up to select NP, with manual entry of paddler details so an entry may be processed and then updated once database update is available?.

I'm reluctant to go down this route for a number of reasons:

• It is open to misuse (eg paddlers expecting promotion could enter before promotion is actually achieved; paddlers wanting to race in a division could just enter even if they are not ranked)
• Not having the correct bib numbers can cause all sorts of issues further down the line. When an postal entry is entered by the organiser, they know that they will need to check the bib number etc. For online entries the organisers pretty much just leave the system to deal with it.
• Knowing that a paddler is ranked does give some security that they have a BC registration and have signed the risk statement - allowing paddlers to enter without a ranking could leave us open to all sorts of legalities if/when something went wrong.

However, looking at the wider process around promotion.......
Nick Penfold/Duncan Berriman - If either of you are reading in you might have some thoughts here. Happy to take off line if you wish...
Could we reverse the process so that the ranking database recognises the promotion and allocates the bib number systematically in all promotitions from div 3 and up (Div 4 to 3 promotions are a different case). The bib offices would then use the ranking database to allocate the correct bib.
If it was possible to do this - and I have no idea whether the current set up would allow it - then as soon as results were uploaded the bib would be allocated and the rest would fall into place. To get promoted from div 3 the paddler would have to have previously signed the risk statement and provided membership details in the same season.

[Dee]

NB Online site shows accepted entries lacking payment, which demonstrates an issue of when is an entry accepted ?

Entries shown as lacking payment will be postal entries; it is ususally the decision of the organiser whether or not to accept them.
(In the case of a competition with enhanced fees, the organiser is obliged to accept entries accompanied by the standard fee as long as the enhanced fee is paid before the start of the race)

My guess is that you are referring to McConkey or similar with a Prem on Saturday and a Div 1 on Sunday. The issue here is that a high proportion of Div 1 paddlers request entry as a paddle up to Prem and also enter on the Sunday. They should send two cheques for two single events but instead send one cheque for a double event. So if they get their paddle-up entry they have underpaid, if they don't they have overpaid.

The poor organiser has one heck of a job sorting it all out. Online entries hasn't caused this (in fact entries made online are correctly charged for the Prem and Div 1 as two singles), possibly just made it more visible. So I'm really not sure what I can do here

[Dee]

Thanks for your thoughts so far - I hope it doesn't sound as though I'm shooting them down in flames - do keep them coming

[CeeBee]

An interesting point re promotions and bib number.

No idea is this would work, but if you assume that priority should be given to those in the Division before Paddle Ups, could you be allowed to enter with your 'old' bib number from say Div 1 but be allowed to put in the date of promotion to prem which would have to be in say the past week at the point of the online entry? This would allow the entry to be accepted pending the new bib number coming through.

If the race is full at the point you try to enter on line or by post, then anyone in the host division should leapfrog paddlers on the waiting list. So for the Paul McConkey, the waiting list would the prem paddlers followed by the Div 1 paddlers i.e. priority is given to the host division.

[JimW]

Would it be possible for competitors to get a permanent login so we don't have to get a new code each time we want to check our entries or enter a new event?

....and agree with Jim that it would be great if we could have a permanent log-in...

In theory, once you are logged in you should stay logged in until you:

• Click the logout button OR
• Clear your cookies

However, Something that causes issues with some users........ When we send you the login email and you click the link, you will be sent to your default browser regardless of where you started. So, suppose you use Chrome to open http://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk, but have Edge set as your default browser. Then by clicking the link you will login to canoeslalomentries on Edge. Next time around you would be able to open the system on Edge without going through the process, but you go back to Chrome and the process repeats. To fix this:

• Set your default browser to be the one that you use OR
• Next time you login, right click the link and manually copy and paste into your preferred browser

Having said all that, I will add this to the list as something to consider. I will say that we are reluctant to start going down the password maintenance route (a security minefield), but we might be able to look at options to login via Facebook or similar. This would not mean we get access to your facebook page, just that we would be using facebook's authentication process to confirm it's really you. (This isn't limited to facebook: we could equally look at Amazon or Google processes)

I'm not sure about that, I only use Firefox but login from several different PCs so maybe that causes the issue?

Not convinced about the Facebook link to other websites (do they call it app platform or something?) and refuse to enable it anyway