Prem is dead Long live Div 1P

[Nick Penfold]

To develop DaveBrad's thinking:
* Entry limits for this year's 9 Prem races are 200, 200, 200, 200, 170, 200, 150, 150 and 180 - an average of 185.
* Historically about 66% of Prem enters each race - and few Prem races have been fully subscribed, so this isn't a "squeezed" number.
* On that basis the maximum size for Prem, to allow every paddler who wants to race to get an entry, would be 280 (185 x 100 / 66).
* Currently Prem totals 239 boats, including promotions and all the Prem/1 C2s.
I don't think one Prem who got his/her entry in on time has ever not got a place, or is likely to. The Tryweryn races (150 limits and a few more promotions) will push the limits.

[Dee]

..."in on time"...

I think it is back to the definition of this. By definitition "on time" is the Friday two weeks before the competition. In practice, the new definition is "before the priority entry expires" which is four weeks.

This is good for paddle-ups (as has been said) and useful for organisers, but not so good for the small proportion of prem paddlers that leave entry until the last minute.

We really need to merge the two dates.

As an organiser I'd like to see the merged date at four weeks before the race after which late fees kick in (at least for Prem/1). At the same time, I'd like to give paddlers the right to cancel (with a refund) up until that four week deadline.

[Nick Penfold]

I appreciate that longer is better for organisers, but a key issue here is protecting the right of host-division paddlers to race at their own competitions. Not everyone is in a position to know a month beforehand that they can get to a race, and not everyone can afford to risk a wasted entry fee by entering when they don't know they can make it. The two-week deadline is long established and well accepted, and I think we should stick to it/go back to it.

[djberriman]

Perhaps the way round that is to allow cancellation with refund up to 2 weeks before.

[Arrowcraft]

Interesting points.

There were 20 paddlers that got their entry in on time but were denied a race at HPP. I am not against paddle up in principle, but the preference needs to be given to host divisions, even to bump a paddle up out in order to let a prem paddler race. Prem paddlers have only 9 opportunities to race a year. In terms of eligibility to paddle up, maybe it should be the top 6 in div 1 at the sate of the race...so there are limits.

These are to protect the quality of racing and might at the same time let div 1's race in the next division, although I personally feel that this is not necessary. Let them get promoted or come and judge or let them get a paddle up chargeable entry IF they judge and limit the number of PUPS to the number of judges required. Charge an enhanced rate even...

My view is that prem races should be subsidised. This is just my view. I have not polled the division or sought anyone elses view.

If water is so expensive run the prems on a single day only and reduce the cost of these championship formats by half to keep the costs and burden on volunteers down. Tully is the only double header...because it is so far from most of the division I guess, but there is no water cost...Is Tully really a prem venue? Would the ICF run a race there? Not sure they would.

The splurge of paddlers through the divisions is almost unmanageable. The number of Div 1's is exploding again. So the base for Prem is getting bigger so soon everyone will be in prem. The divisions need a way to release the pressure...the divisional numbers is a good idea so that it always starts at the same point each year. One up one down.

However the divisions work is just about balancing numbers, holding levels and maintaining competitiveness. But in Prem, you are at the top of the sport by right of conquest. They MUST be given priority over PUPS...even if that means bumping a PUP to make room, even if the Prem enters later or even if the prem enters the race late. To have the RIGHT to race at prem races should be a big deal. It's not just a chance to try and get some more points.

[Dee]

Interesting points.

There were 20 paddlers that got their entry in on time but were denied a race at HPP...

Question. Where did you get this figure from?

[stevepearson]

Blimy! what a lot of posts & opinions - but i don't get it...........

I felt the original post was all about Prems getting priory over Paddle Ups (not Pups by the way!) - the current system does this, you simply need to enter the race more than 4 weeks before the race. The rules are simple & the same for everyone & they were opublis

There's a whole load of stuff in this thread & it may be worth splitting out key elements to get some clarity ahead of proposed changes - only so its easier for anyone who uses this site to see peoples views on a single subject (or i might be a bit of a thicko & not be able to multi task - i am a bloke after all!)


Finally - Whilst i may or may not not agree with the portable points, i do feel its beneficial for paddlers to be on the same starting grid as those they will be paddling against in a number of months, so as long as the current format does that its okay by me - remembering that we wont be able to please all the people all the time, we can only have good intentions