C1 Points & promotions

[stevepearson]

At the AGM last year it was proposed & agreed that C1 promotion points should be in line with K1, the impact of this is that paddlers need to win a number of races to get proposed rather than say 2 x 2nd place finishes which was seen in D1 in 2016, the problem is that so many paddlers now are competing against each other & are at risk of not getting promoted this season.

I have started this discussion with 3 things to consider & have put forward.....

Item 1 - Change the C1 promotion points.
For example in D1 it could be the average of 2nd place finish x 5, say 4650 points - this would allow a paddler getting 5 x 2nd place finishes or 1 x 1st, 3 x 2nd & 1 x 3rd and so on to get promoted rather than the 4 x 1st & 1 x 2 that it seems to be now.

Item 2 - Promotions at the end of the season
Once the above is agreed, then whoever would have achieved that target gets promoted for the 2018 season

Item 3 - Paddlers returning to the sport
If a paddler has paddled in a higher division before (say Prem) and gets reinstated in D1, i propose that if they win 1 x race they go straight to prem rather than getting in the way of paddlers progressing through the divisions. The same would apply to D1, D2 etc


I'm sure that there is food for thought here & whilst this is an idea - a good thread would flush out some real ideas to take forward to the AGM to improve the sport.


NOTE: this doesn't take into account division size nor demotions which should be considered along with any proposals for promotions.

[djberriman]

"the problem is that so many paddlers now are competing against each other & are at risk of not getting promoted this season"

That was the whole point of the ACM motion, C1 participation has increased so the promotion requirements were brought in line with K1. I seem to remember people thought it was too easy to get promoted in C1 and many were then finding it very hard to compete in the higher division. The lower points requirement was because there were so few paddling C1 previously.

I guess what you are saying is there are still not enough paddlers in the division to make 2nd place useful for promotion.

The problem with the suggested 'average' rule (IMHO) would be it is so vague and would be hard for paddlers to understand, bib and ranking officers to understand and for the ranking system to understand (shudders at the thought of writing that logic).

This has happened in other divisions and classes such as only 13 paddlers in div 2 K1 class I paddled in once (when there were 60 odd at previous event). I've often thought there should perhaps be a rule something along the lines of if < N paddlers compete then N will be used as the number of paddlers to calculate points as its not really the paddlers fault that others haven't entered. This paddlers time and money is rewarded, rather than relying on others. I guess you could work N out so that 2nd place , possibly 3rd place gives points worth having. This would mean N being something like 29 I think.

There is one example of I know of that relates to Item 3, as I remember, I may be wrong, they got demoted thus get reinstated in Div 1, however they've not had it all their own way, 2 1sts at last 2 events, but before that a 4,5,12, the 12th was the same weekend as a 1st, which to me shows progression. I'm sure the could paddle at prem, and will soon, but do they warrant instant promotion based on the first 3 results, 4, 5, 12?

[Dee]

Is promotion from Canadian that slow compared with other classes? The proportions of those promoted and those currently left in the divisions don't look too far adrift in most cases.

Div 1 promotions:
K1W - 1 leaving 73
C1W - 2 leaving 27
K1M - 6 leaving 135
C1M - 1 leaving 49

Div 2
K1W - 4 leaving 78
C1W - 1 leaving 23
K1M - 3 leaving 163
C1M - 1 leaving 46

The biggest discrepancy is between K1M and C1M in div 1, but it really looks like it's the K1M which is slightly out of kilter.

Looking at the top few C1M (with apologies to the individual paddlers), their top 5 positions were
1) 1,2,2,4,4
2) 1,2,3,3,4
3) 1,2,2,4,4
4) 1,2,3,5,6

So it doesn't look as though second places are not useful, but rather that 4th and, to some extent, 3rd places are not useful.
Of those currently ranked in the top four only number 4 has raced as a paddle-up and he did not have great success; obiously a bit unfair to judge from one race, but it would appear that div 1 is currently a better place for him.


I'm guessing that at least some of this post has come about because the promoted paddler had three very convincing wins in the first three races of the season and has since shot to third place in Prem. However,

Paddler 1 did not compete in the first 2 of those races and got a 4th place in the third
Paddler 2 did not compete in the first 2 of those races and got a 3rd place in the third
Paddler 3 did compete in all three races getting 4th, 2nd, 2nd
Paddler 4 competed in only 2 of the 3 races getting a 16th, and 6th

So really only paddler 3 was potentially "held down" by the promoted paddler and said paddler has done less well at subsequent races so hasn't quite made it.


I make no comment on how fast promotion should be, but statistics would suggest that at least some of the concerns are unfounded.


PS

so many paddlers now are competing against each other

Isn't this the whole point of slalom