Coping with Numbers in Div 1

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
djberriman
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Coping with Numbers in Div 1

Post by djberriman » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:05 pm

Waiting lists 4 weeks before the event are typically because PU entries are not accepted until 4 weeks before so there will always be a waiting list.

There may have been some confusion over this and the 2 week rule for late entries that means some paddlers got caught out thinking they could enter just before late entry deadline and get a place only to find PU entries had been accepted. In addition some may have seen PU waiting lists and assumed it was 'just' a waiting list. The online system gives much more visibility to entries and waiting lists which is a good and bad thing depending on how people view it and whether they understand the various deadlines.

It always difficult to determine the wrinkles in any new rules and even harder to ensure people know about rule changes and understand them.

To that end I have suggested all rule changes are highlighted in the year book so its much easier to scan through and just read the changes, and also for clarity during the year if a rule is questioned as it will be obvious it has changed.

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Coping with Numbers in Div 1

Post by JimW » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:26 pm

I've got to agree with Craig on this, that waiting list stats are misleading for a couple of reasons:

- Paddlers on the waiting list who are offered a place in the last week or 2 before the event may already have other commitments by then, or may not be able to arrange accommodation or other details at short notice and may not take up the place. I was a long way down the list for Chapel Falls (PU) and on the verge of committing to something else when I got a place with under a week to go, I was really lucky to be able to book camping, I understand that others were turned away. For Tees I took advantage of Les' observation that he had a few places left when the date to accept PU was approaching, even that many weeks from the event I was lucky to get a room at the Premier Inn by the course and paid a premium for it...

- Paddlers in division who haven't entered yet are put off by waiting lists, some see waiting lists and decide not to bother putting an entry in because they think they won't get it. This is especially true of new promotees, over the last year I have been congratulating paddlers when they earn their promotion out of div 2 and the obvious follow on question is "so when is your first div 1 going to be" - almost every one of them has answered me with "well I won't be able to get an entry for X so hopefully Y or Z". A few have been encouraged to try for an entry to X and some have got it, but most take it as a fait accompli and don't bother to enter.

- Similar to above, I have entered as official at several div 1s this year because I didn't expect to be able to get a PU, actually at most of them I could have paddled up (not Tees) and it would have benefitted organisers with 2 more entry fees (K1 and C1), although they wouldn't have had me for official duties.

So I would say the threat of events filling up is almost as bad as them actually filling up, but I'm not sure we need a rule change to sort it out, we just need to spread the word better that if paddlers are able to be a bit more flexible about taking last minute places, there is a very good chance they will actually get a place. Not matter what we do, there will always be drop outs - promotion, injury, change of personal circumstances, even down to miscommunication between parents and children leading to situations where maybe child wasn't planning to do an event and didn't know they had been entered so there is always a chance of getting an entry from the waiting list.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Coping with Numbers in Div 1

Post by Dee » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:23 am

Seedy Paddler wrote:However in both cases the event was full or nearly full well in advance. .....the waiting lists are fully active 4 weeks before an event.
CD
djberriman wrote:Waiting lists 4 weeks before the event are typically because PU entries are not accepted until 4 weeks before so there will always be a waiting list...The online system gives much more visibility to entries and waiting lists which is a good and bad thing depending on how people view it and whether they understand the various deadlines.
JimW wrote:I've got to agree with Craig on this, that waiting list stats are misleading for a couple of reasons:....
- Paddlers on the waiting list who are offered a place in the last week or 2 before the event may already have other commitments by then...Paddlers in division who haven't entered yet are put off by waiting lists, some see waiting lists and decide not to bother putting an entry in because they think they won't get it.
.

This may all be helped by education and growing familiarity. It is, in someways, unfortunate that the full introduction of paddle ups and the use of the online entry system coincided. So, almost from day 1, we have waiting lists of paddle ups for all prem and div 1 competitions; for those competitions not using online entries these waiting lists are 'invisible', but still exist. When we display this information online (and the majority of P/1 races are online) it causes panic buying and expectation of host paddlers not getting a race.

As paddlers start to understand the rules around paddleups better, get used to online, and see that in most cases host division paddlers will get a race, I suspect that both panic and despair will wane. Paddle ups may continue to miss out due to availability but host paddlers will become more relaxed.

In the meantime perhaps some non-drastic measures could help - too late for any more ACM proposals now, but could I do something with online lists to alleviate the panic (I know that not all comps are online but a lot are). Some possible options
  • Don't display paddle ups on the waiting list until the end if priority entry period (downside is that paddleups will think that their entry has not been received properly).
  • Up to end of priority period show paddleups in a separate pre-registrations list, so that the waiting list only shows paddlers who are eligible for immediate entry but can't get a place. Then merge the lists after end of priority
  • keep waiting list as is but add a column to show whether a host or paddle up entry (I do already show the ranking for the paddler but maybe using the words 'paddle up' would be easier)
  • always show paddleup waiting list as a separate list from host waiting list
The above suggestions are for the competition home page that everyone sees (not the organisers pages).

I am not suggesting that this will magically create spaces or provide a full solution, but I am looking for ways to make it more obvious to host paddlers that they stand a good chance and perhaps alleviate the panic a little.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the above suggestions? Would they help or would it be a waste of effort? Any other ideas?
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

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