6.15 Multi Class Discount

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15 Multi Class Discount
Four motions have been received, it is proposed that all three are debated, then each put to a vote in order.

These are seperately listed below

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15.1 Remove MCD, and reduce C2 Minimum Entry Fee
Remove Multiclass discount as above, but reduce the entry fee to 50% for the C2 event to encourage and promote the retention of the class.

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15.2 Proposed by Viking Kayak Club and Seconded by Taunton Canoe Club
Having taken on the processing of Cardington Division 2/3/4 slalom entries for the first time this year, the biggest single headache and thing that would prevent me doing it again was multi class discounts (MCDs). Entries for over 650 boat/days were received prior to the events, about a quarter of these were eligible for MCDs. Of those eligible for MCDs 80% of them were wrong, in the majority of cases (almost 70% of those eligible) the MCD had not been applied. The incorrect entries were not confined to those new to the sport, many of the people who didn’t apply MCDs to their entries were in Division 2. Even after having MCDs explained to them at the June event they still failed to apply them for the September event. The other MCD errors encountered were, wrong discount, applying discount to both days of a double entry and applying discount to all classes. Dealing with incorrect MCDs significantly increased the complexity and hence time taken to process entries, increased effort was required for the following tasks:
• Calculating expected entry fees.
• Determining why fees paid didn’t match fees expected, this is particularly difficult when an a single check is received for entries for multiple people.
• Communicating with people who had submitted incorrect fees including explaining how multiclass entry fees work as they are not well understood.
• Obtaining sufficient change to refund unclaimed MCDs at the event.
• Refunding unclaimed MCDs.
• Recalculating fees along with associated refunds or additional payments when part of multiclass entries changed both before the event and/or after day 1.
• While not a result of incorrect MCDs, completing the MCD sheet of the Slalom Summary spread sheets after the events was also very time consuming.
The complexities around MCD rules would make them very difficult and time consuming to implement in the online entry system and once implemented would add significantly to the system maintenance overhead (This has been confirmed by Dee Lindesay, creator of the Online entry system).
Conclusions
1. Organising a slalom event is extremely time consuming and as such there is a very limited group of people who are prepared to do it. If the sport is going to be sustainable every effort should be made to simplify event organisation. MCDs add significantly to the complexity and should be removed.
2. The purpose of MCDs is to encourage participation in additional classes. The data collected at this year’s Cardington events shows that the majority of paddlers participating in multiple classes do so without the incentive of a discount. MCDs do not incentivise participation in the majority of cases.

Viking Kayak Club proposes that all references to multiclass discounts are removed from the Slalom Rules. In the 2017 year book this would require removal of the Multi-class entries paragraph below the 2017 Entry Fees on page 102.

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15.3 Proposed and seconded by Shepperton Canoe Club
Multi class discount is complex and made more so by being applied across the whole weekend. If double entry fees are abolished then it makes sense to amend the discount to be half the current rate but to be applied by day.

At Division 2 and below a discount of £1.50 will be offered for second and subsequent individual entries on the same day of a completion, by the same competitor. A single discount may be earned or claimed for each boat. (Only 1 competitor of a C2 crew can claim discount for their individual event).

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15.4 Proposed by CRCATS and seconded by Strathallan Canoe Club
The multi class discount was introduced to encourage paddlers to compete in more than 1 class without it being too expensive. Multi class discount is complex and made more so by being applied across the whole weekend. If double entry fees are abolished then it makes sense to amend the discount to be applied per day. Paddlers are already paying enough for a the first class and should be encouraged to race in multiple classes so they get more from a race. This should also help make C1 events more likely to be quorate and should encourage C2.
Note this is written on the basis that the previous motion is adopted. If this is not the case, the wording may be altered to retain the purpose of the motion.

At Division 2 and below, the entry fee for an additional entry by the same competitor on the same day will be 50% of the entry fee for the lower Division. For C2, the 50% entry fee applies if either or both paddlers have another entry.

[Dee]

......then each put to a vote in order....

Is the intention to stop voting if something is successful? Shepperton's proposal (6.15.3) was explicitly only put forward in the case of 6.15.2 failing.

On the other hand I would want to vote for 6.15.1 just in case 6.15.2 doesn't succeed so would want the opportunity to continue on to vote for 6.15.2 even if 6.15.1 was successful.

I think (subject to thoughts by other Sheppy members and discussed outcomes on the day) that my order of preference would be 2, 1, 3, 4.

But clearly others will feel differently, so I think this could get confusing. We could even end up with several contradictory motions being passed!

[Canadian Paddler]

Subject to changes in order at the ACM and the Chairs management, the motions will be taken 1,2,3,4 and stopped when a motion passes.
As you say each person has thier own preference, this is the committee view. Remember, if all fail we stay with MCD as it is now.

[Dee]

Subject to changes in order at the ACM and the Chairs management, the motions will be taken 1,2,3,4 and stopped when a motion passes.
As you say each person has thier own preference, this is the committee view. Remember, if all fail we stay with MCD as it is now.

Thanks for the response. So, if I want to propose a change in the order do I do that at the start of the whole meeting or when we are discussing the motion. (Quite happy to just propose the order change with an immediate vote and no discussion as I'm not trying to keep us there until midnight! If it goes against then so be it).

[Canadian Paddler]

Any proposed change to the Agenda has to be put at the start of the meeting. Talk to the chair about it before we start.


Out of interest (secretary hat off) what have you got against encouraging c2 NOT to die but to keep going?
As "Tony" (can't remember how to spell the rest of his name) said do not rule C2 out of Paris 2024. But if we do not support the event it will die.

[Canadian Paddler]

<Secretary hat off><devious hat on>
Of course, if the first became an amendment to the second the order could not be changed. . .

But I would not do that.

[Dee]

I have nothing whatsoever against encouraging C2, quite the opposite; David and Forbes got a lot out of paddling C2 as father and son, even if they did often bicker all the way down the course

However, I just don't believe that reducing the rate for C2 entry will have any impact. I believe that encouraging people to have a go in another class (including C2) is about the personal approach, the offer of a loan boat and paddles, personal encouragement, positive imagery (we need photos of C2s on Nick's site!) etc. To keep C2s paddling we also need to think about how we manage divisions and promotions - there are definitely a few teams who give up when they are promoted to P/1 because the jump is too much.

[Canadian Paddler]

6.15.1 accepted 43 votes for, 10 votes against and no abstentions. Motion 6.15.1 was therefore accepted, and 6.15.2 rejected.