Division Sizes and Promotion Points

[Dee]

Just musing, but I had a thought. This may be a load of rubbish, but....!

It seems to me that we encourage paddlers to aim for promotion from 4 to 3, 3 to 2 and 2 to 1 and whilst it does, as it should, get progressively harder it is still reasonably achievable.

Once they get to div 1 they are still aiming for promotion, but it seems like there is a huge step change in the difficulty of achieving it. We then end up with a bulge of paddlers at div 1, with fewer competitions available that at Div 2 and, in some cases insufficient places for those that want to paddle.

Once in Prem, the pressure on places eases off (the vast majority of Prems take paddle-ups to fill up).

Is there a case for actually allowing Prem to increase in size slightly, perhaps by promoting the top x paddlers at the end of the season?

[djberriman]

It would seem based on the number of paddle ups that can be accommodated at Prems it may be too small. I'm sure you will get howls from certain paddlers unfortunately that this will lower the standard of Prem and devalue you it as are regularly seen on these boards. I'm not sure how widely this view is held amongst prem paddlers or if it is a small but vocal minority.

[Dee]

Maybe, but if, say, the best 5 or 10 div 1s were promoted to Prem, then there would be less room for paddle-ups so the standard at a given race would be up not down. At the moment, in theory at least, any div 1 could paddle at a Prem including those at the bottom end. This could actually strengthen prem and take the pressure off div 1 races.

As I say just musing really

[Mike Mitchell]

I agree Dee.
If Prem races need additional paddlers to fill the event then increase the size of the Division.

Alternatively open- paddle up entries- say 2 weeks before the race and take entries from the highest ranked paddlers at that stage in the season. Say top 5 first, then top 10 and so on, until the event is full.

That would save me staying up all night next Feb to get the entries in for events at the end of the year and then cancelling the entry if I decided not to go.

[Dee]

That would save me staying up all night next Feb ...

Why Feb?
Plus FYI on canoeslalomentries home page there is now a button on the bottom that allows easier entry across multiple competitions. So shouldn't take all night, unless you prefer to fill in cards and cheques to post in which case I accept that it may take you rather longer.

[paddlerparent]

Graveyard is full and has no paddle ups, just a few open entries & a lot more Prem waiting.

So your logic is not right.


Paddle ups dont get promotion points form Prem so are probably not quite ready for that step - so dont dilute it.


When paddlers are good enough they will make it - in ethe same way existing prem paddlers did, (the divisional numbers havnt really changed in the past few years).

[djberriman]

Some PU's do get points which count towards promotion. I can't be bothered to check all classes but 3 out of 6 K1W and 4 out of 10 K1M promoted to Prem have so far this year which means they have beaten over half of the Prem paddlers which following your logic presumably means they were ready for that step and didn't dilute it.

[Dee]

Graveyard is full and has no paddle ups, just a few open entries & a lot more Prem waiting.

So your logic is not right.


Paddle ups dont get promotion points form Prem so are probably not quite ready for that step - so dont dilute it.


When paddlers are good enough they will make it - in ethe same way existing prem paddlers did, (the divisional numbers havnt really changed in the past few years).

Graveyard is the main exception. However, this is partly down to a relatively low limit (which has to be in place because of the potential of a restricted release), and partly down to the Open for pan Celtic and Welsh Champs which is inevitably using up places.

[lesf]

Tees Prem is also full without paddle ups and has Prems on the waiting list - with a 200 limit.

I'm thinking the bubble of numbers in Div 1 is shifting to Prem at the moment. If you look at bib numbers issued, certainly in K1M there are more than there have been for quite a few years.

[Mike Mitchell]

Graveyard is the main exception. However, this is partly down to a relatively low limit (which has to be in place because of the potential of a restricted release), and partly down to the Open for pan Celtic and Welsh Champs which is inevitably using up places.
[/quote]

Should pan Celtic deny Pre paddlers an entry, when they have only got a limited number of races and some desperately need points.

Looks like Prem is big enough if paddlers can't get an entry. [Graveyard and Tees ]