Quorate event dilemma.

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JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Quorate event dilemma.

Post by JimW » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:07 pm

I have been busy trying to get promoted in K1 (failed again, try again tomorrow) so didn't enter C1 this weekend, but brought it with me in case I did get promoted today, and half thinking about entering tomorrow and only doing practice and second run (i.e. still concentrate on K1 but try the course in C1 after I have finished my K1 battle)

C1 is not quorate. If I had entered it would have been and a friend would have been promoted.

If I enter tomorrow, my friend is about 99% certain to get promoted. But his dad is concerned that if I enter and just do single run he won't feel as though he earned the promotion because it will look like i was just making numbers up to help him. My only C1 win this year was at an event where I only did a single run, and some of my best C1 runs have been last thing on a Sunday so actually I will know I'll have pushed him as hard as I can if I enter (but I am very unlikely to beat him).

I hate to see C1 inquorate anyway, and felt bad today that I had eschewed it to concentrate on K1, so I still think entering in the morning is the right thing to do, but I'm now concerned that some people are going to think we have somehow colluded to cheat to get my friend promoted.

What would you do?

I won't read your replies until after the race tomorrow (possibly not until Monday, it is a long way home) so I am not going to be influenced by them - I'll sleep on it and decide that for myself in the morning. I'm just interested what people think about these sort of situations.

Nigel
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by Nigel » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:38 am

Morning Jim

My boys have had this dilemma all year, we hear you.

Some people only do one run regardless, some like me struggle to do practice!!! and as for getting a rerun that is just ritual torture in my books :shock: .

2 K1 runs 2 C1 runs plus official practice and open practice, its a lot, I watch my boys closely for over doing it.

You do what Jim wants to do, there seems a lack of interest in C1 low down, most opting to pick up a blade when they already have a good K1 rank, don't stress it, everything will sort itself out.

Nige

WindsorCC
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:22 pm

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by WindsorCC » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:47 am

I'd just do whatever you want to do, I can't see anyone considering you doing a C1 run (especially as you'll be working at it, not just turning up at the start and cruising down) as as 'cheating' or influencing whether someone else gets promoted.

Paul.

CeeBee
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by CeeBee » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:19 pm

no one will think anything of it and we've scrabbled around in the past to make races quorate for people who hadn't decided whether to race or not. Your friend will still need to win to get promoted so that's not cheating at all. We persuaded all our newbies to race last weekend in Div 4 which increased the number of promotions - that's how the sport works and it's not an exact line of when you should be promoted.

At any race you are comparing yourself to who else has entered - sometimes you win because the field was not so strong and other times you don't as some of the paddlers chasing the final result for promotion travel further afield to get the points.

JimW
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:17 pm
Location: Pinkston

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by JimW » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:27 am

Interesting points, and I had another interesting discussion today about the whole concept of having to have quorate classes.

I did decide to enter last night, but in the morning I changed my mind for other reasons and didn't enter.

John Sturgess
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Gedling, Nottingham/Long Preston, North Yorkshire

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by John Sturgess » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:47 pm

Jim
You are right - it is another of these complications that we put ourselves into in our desperate efforts to be 'fair'. And within a few more races both have probably been promoted, so it does not matter anyway!
Oh for the French system (email me on john.sturgess5243@btinternet.com if interested)

CeeBee
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by CeeBee » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:13 pm

John, Under normal circumstances yes, but with some of the double Div 2s being cancelled recently, paddlers are running out of opportunities to get promoted this season. It won't matter in the long run but as you know this is not how kids who are desperate for promotion see it.

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by Mike Mitchell » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:42 pm

Jim I often only do one C1 Run. Yesterday I did 2 Kayak Runs. 2 C2 Runs and then One C1 just so my boy could get extra points in Div 1. He got first so maximum points and all his competitors got some extra point because I entered.
I still enjoyed it.

harratts
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by harratts » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:47 am

What about we get rid of the quorate requirements for all classes altogether and compare run times against the K1 Men's time at the same event having firstly applied a time adjustment figure.

This is what we did for C2's last year and it seems to be working perfectly well to me.

If several entrants are very fast they they can all get maximum points but if nobody in the class is all that fast then nobody gets maximum points just because they are the best who entered on that day.

It never then matters to the individual entrant how many other people enter the race or how well they do.

Points are awarded on your own personal performance and when you are good enough / fast enough you secure enough ranking points to be promoted.

Steve

JimW
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Location: Pinkston

Re: Quorate event dilemma.

Post by JimW » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:03 pm

Generally I agree with Steves points.

My only concern with comparing all classes with K1M is that I'm not really sure if the correction factors are suitable, and even where they do appear to be suitable at some events, are they suitable for all events?
I had a look at a few numbers last night and 8% for K1M - C1M may be about right for Llandysul last weekend, but in the past I have looked for other races and not found it to be a good correlation. Perhaps the average paddler approach would sort this out?

But there is more to it than just points, it just doesn't feel like a race when there are only 2 or 3 others there, what we really need is more people paddling C1 in the lower divisions...

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