ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

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Canadian Paddler
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ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Canadian Paddler » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Although some members of the British Team go to extreme levels to compete in 5 Premier races a season, this is difficult to fit in with training camps and competing internationally. Some manage to complete a couple of races, and are ranked in the middle of the division, not ideal for those they follow. Others have decided not to compete in any Premier races, to avoid demotion. This is not ideal as we would like to see the best in the country competing at Premier races.
To remove the current perceived hurdles Senior World Championship team athletes will be offered different coloured bibs for the rest of the season, allowing them to compete at premier competitions and protecting them from demotion at the end of the season. This group of paddlers will compete before or after the corresponding event as agreed with the organisers. Their runs will be ranking runs, counting for the calculation and accrual of points.
In addition, representations will be made to senior coaches and performance director to encourage team members to compete at a minimum of three competitions a year.
Page 72
*C13.1.1 The organiser is responsible for the start list at Ranking Competitions. Competitors will start in the reverse bib order. Competitors without a Ranking Bib are placed at the beginning of the start order. Their position on the start order is drawn and is the responsibility of the organiser.
Paddlers in the GB Senior World Championship team, will paddle, in bib order, as a group at the end of the corresponding event, these paddlers will be suitably identified.
The start order of the semi-finals will be the reverse order of the individual event heats results. The start order of the individual event final run will be the reverse order of the individual semi-final results.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
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Nick Penfold
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Nick Penfold » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:53 pm

I am confused.
  • How will any of this be done before Selection?
  • By what numbers will we identify the GB team members at races?
  • What is the definition of "GB Team" bearing in mind that different teams are nominated for different races?
  • Taking a couple of examples, one member of the current GB team is ranked #1 for 2018. Another has not raced at all, so is (provisionally) not included in the ranking lists. Are we going to take the first paddler out of the "rest of Prem" sequence or are we going to force the unranked paddler into the sequence at #1?

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:40 pm

Taking in order:
  • The intent was that the 'Senior World Championship Team' lasts from one selection race to another, so before Selection the previous years' team will have this ability.
  • The Team members will paddle in their ranking bibs, but will paddle at the end of the appropriate event (as the rule change says)
  • The rule clearly says the GB Senior World Championship Team. So no more than 3 boats per event.
  • All three World Championship team members will paddle at the end of the relevant event. As the rule change states in bib order, as a group at the end of the corresponding event This avoids the situation we have had before where the bib number puts team members in the middle of Premier. Think of Lizzie Neave chasing Nikita Setchell, or David Florence in the middle of the C1s
    If they do not have a current ranking they have to apply for a Bib.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Nick Penfold
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Nick Penfold » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:46 pm

It is my club's view that having the GB team run last undermines the status of Bib #1 and the effort put in to achieve it, which reflects a real commitment to racing in the GB programme. GB team members can and do achieve #1 position in the GB rankings by their own efforts.

CeeBee
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by CeeBee » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:36 pm

Nick

Our club had the same discussion. Whoever has bib number 1 should go last in class. They have earned this privilege.

To mitigate any concern that they may not get sufficient points to not be demoted, a clause could be added to say that "Any British Senior Team paddler will automatically be ranked in Prem the following season".

All of these paddlers benefitted from the UK ranking system when they were coming through the ranks and it is sad that they are absent from the prem races as it is beneficial for the sport for the next generation to see these paddlers and aspire to what they have achieved. Yes, some of the races clash with International racing duties but not all.

Nick Penfold
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Nick Penfold » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Bear in mind also that:
  • The Prem calendar is early- and late-season loaded almost to the point of the ridiculous - there is no racing for Prem paddlers through the summer - and one of the reasons for this, though it might have been forgotten, is to avoid, as far as possible, clashing with World Cups and World Championships. One GB team member raced at 8 UK Prem races this year.
  • Very few Prems are 60 seconds slower than the best, so the argument about GB Team member X chasing poor Y down the river doesn't really hold water.
I have no problem at all with GB team members having automatic protection from demotion, but, however you dress it up, giving them the last three slots effectively demotes Bib #1 to fourth.

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Canadian Paddler » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:38 pm

Anyone asked Nikita about the year she was chased by Lizzie Neave?
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

JimW
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by JimW » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:56 pm

Canadian Paddler wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:38 pm
Anyone asked Nikita about the year she was chased by Lizzie Neave?
In most divisions it is acceptable to ask for extra time if you (or your child) is frequently catching the paddler in front, or being caught by the paddler behind. The organiser will usually give it because helps avoid problems with judging towards the end of the course and for finish.
Is this not allowed in Prem?

JBS
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by JBS » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:25 am

Just send themn at the beginning of the class. Then they are following the best from the previous class down. There easy...now to sort out world famine and arrange peace in the middle east and.....

Dee
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Dee » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:15 am

JBS wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:25 am
Just send themn at the beginning of the class. Then they are following the best from the previous class down. There easy...now to sort out world famine and arrange peace in the middle east and.....
:lol: :P :lol:
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CeeBee
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by CeeBee » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:57 am

Interesting stats when you look at the events the Senior Team competed at in 2018

C1W - the 3 women competed at 3,4 and 4 events
C1M - the 3 men competed at 0, 2 and 2 events
K1M - the 3 men competed at 0,0 and 2 events
K1W - the 3 women competed at 3,4 and 7 events

So some attended no events and some managed 4+ events. I suspect some of this is down to how some of the team perceive the value of these events.

Realistically based on demotions in previous years, a member of the Senior Team needs to only compete at 2 races to stay in Prem. 9 of the 12 paddlers managed this.

What was very unfortunate for the sport was that the Senior team were on international duty so they couldn't compete at the British Open and the Lee Valley Prem.

AliCooke
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by AliCooke » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:01 pm

"representations will be made to senior coaches and performance director to encourage team members to compete at a minimum of three competitions a year"

There is no evidence this year that not competing in the home events has had any effect on success in international competitions (the opposite in fact I believe). That these paddlers do not compete to avoid demotion is nonsensical - they would obviously get ranking status. It should be mandatory for these paddlers to compete at 3 events per year, not just encouraged. These paddlers should be role models to our up and coming juniors and should be visible at their ranking events. Prem paddlers should have the opportunity to race against the best in their division. Perhaps making the selection events into Prem races could assist?

If it is actually deemed acceptable that these selected paddlers are allowed not to compete in Prem, then please can we revise the calendar and stop putting pressure on the rest of Prem to cram their races at the beginning and end of the season? This is a punishing schedule for those who have exams for example and why penalise the majority for the sake of a few paddlers who do not compete anyway?

With regard to the rest of the motion, I agree with JBS - if they are sent at the beginning they do not negate the position of the current number 1 and importantly the rest of Prem get the opportunity to watch a top class demo before their own runs.

Canadian Paddler
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Re: ACM Motion 6.11British Team Ranking

Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:13 am

The original motion failed getting 30 votes for, 34 votes against and 14 abstentions.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

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