Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

General slalom chatter...rant about the bad, rave about the good
paddlerparent
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by paddlerparent » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:33 am

Mark H wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:31 pm
Thanks Dee,
It looks like making the season spanning over two years is going to throw up some issues that haven't been thought about.
Would it not be easier just to wright this season off and let the people who got promoted stay promoted and just start again next year. I am sure people would understand.

Cheers Mark
Very well put Mark & i hope the people who made the decision will review the consequences of that decision - im sure that ages isnt the only problem that will be found out with this decision to extend the season

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davebrads
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by davebrads » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:25 pm

paddlerparent wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:33 am
Very well put Mark & i hope the people who made the decision will review the consequences of that decision - im sure that ages isnt the only problem that will be found out with this decision to extend the season
Can anybody explain why it is a bad decision to extend the season? I can't see any real downsides apart from a bit of administration to iron out any anomolies such as the age categories. Certainly nobody put any real objections on the thread where this matter was discussed. I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss this it should be on the other thread anyway to keep matters clean.

How about we just have the age category awards decided only on points scored in 2021 based on paddlers age on 01/01/2021. I don't expect that this will be very difficult to work out.

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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mike Mitchell » Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:53 pm

Can anybody explain why it is a bad decision to extend the season? I can't see any real downsides apart from a bit of administration to iron out any anomolies such as the age categories. Certainly nobody put any real objections on the thread where this matter was discussed. I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss this it should be on the other thread anyway to keep matters clean.

How about we just have the age category awards decided only on points scored in 2021 based on paddlers age on 01/01/2021. I don't expect that this will be very difficult to work out.

Spot on Dave.

Just not sure how the Vets Points will work out ?

Mark H
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:21 pm

So we are thinking of already splitting the seasons/years up for prizes.
How many votes at the AGM do clubs get who have run races this year against
clubs that haven't had the opportunity to run any races this year.

I am sure that there will be other unforeseen questions that will take time to sort.

Keep it simple, Start a new season next year.

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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:25 pm

Mark H wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:21 pm
...
How many votes at the AGM do clubs get who have run races this year against
clubs that haven't had the opportunity to run any races this year...
This is a good point, though one which would have equally applied had we kept 2020 as a separate season.

At the 2018 ACM, I believe the rules for club votes were amended to:

6.1 Each Voting Club will have 1 vote and will be allocated an additional vote if it has 21 Ranked Members or more.
6.2 Each Voting Club is allocated 1 vote for each Ranking Competition it has organised in the immediately preceding 12 months. If a Ranking Slalom is organised by more than one club, or a consortium of clubs, the vote relating to that Ranking Slalom may be assigned to a Registered Club by notifying the Secretary of the allocation. There is no vote for any competition organised by the British Canoeing Slalom Committee, or a Home Nation Slalom Committee.
6.3 Each Voting Club may have a maximum of five votes.
6.4 Voting Clubs may not vote at a Consultative Meeting unless all money due to the British Canoeing Slalom Committee by them at the time has been paid by no later than 48 hours before the appointed start of the Consultative Meeting.

So, at least some clubs will gain additional votes due to membership. It may be a mute point as holding a “normal” ACM this yea probably is not going to be achievable! Something else that we need to think about. Oscars will definitely be postponed!
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JBS
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by JBS » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:33 pm

What has happened in previous season (like last year) when events didn't run because of too much/little water? Did they still get a vote for that event or not?
Whatever the answer a precedent has been set.

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Jeff
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Jeff » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:49 pm

The key word in the rule is "organised", not "run".

paddlerparent
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by paddlerparent » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:53 pm

One thing is clear - people dont seem to be in agreement with the age categories for a 2 year season. I suppose there should be some suggestions perhaps the below options:

1 - Paddler age at the end of the season, this would reflect the same as other seasons but not cover paddlers changing form say J16 to J18 over the 2020/21 season

2. Paddlers age at the start of the season - somewhat odd as the current age is end of season, but would cover any ambiguity if agree to

3. change the age groups to J15, J17 etc - that would benifit those in teh last year say J16 as they would be in last year say J17, but then what happens?? if it goes back to a calendar year per season those who were 1st year J17 are now 1st year J18 so they miss out

4. Follow the ages & riles for ICF - tough #### if people dont like it but its a decision so people can live with it

For me Option 1 is the only plausible option therefore if a paddler is 17 at the end of 2021 they are J18 not J16 as they were at the start of 2020.


All that said - im still at a loss as to why we didnt follow every other sport & either finish the season in 2020 or abandon it in 2020 - then at least this question goes away (and possibly the voting one too)

Feel free to comment on those options or add more if there are any so people can make a decision at least

paddlerparent
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by paddlerparent » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:55 pm

Jeff wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:49 pm
The key word in the rule is "organised", not "run".
Still ambiguous - for instance

a. Race cancelled as no water could be classed as organised as it was cancelled last minute in most cases

b. Yet - this year races are not organised as they are cancelled months in advance - no organising required ;)


Perhaps 'scheduled' would be more fitting in future

Dee
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm

paddlerparent wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:55 pm
Jeff wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:49 pm
The key word in the rule is "organised", not "run".
Still ambiguous - for instance

a. Race cancelled as no water could be classed as organised as it was cancelled last minute in most cases

b. Yet - this year races are not organised as they are cancelled months in advance - no organising required ;)


Perhaps 'scheduled' would be more fitting in future
I think (but am not sure) that if a competition is cancelled In a normal year then it doesn’t count for voting points.

I don’t think scheduled is appropriate. Potentially a club could deliberately acquire voting points by scheduling and not running a competition. The other question would be what counts as scheduled- if we mean “In the year book” then this could disadvantage short notice div 4s. I’d be wary of changing rules following a one off and then creating a problem for a normal year
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Canadian Paddler » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:29 pm

For information

Age categories.
Option 1 and Option 4 are the same. Age category for ICF is the age in 2021. Sorry if you missed out on j18 World Championships but that's pandemic for you.

Votes
Historically 'organised' has been taken to be as from start to end of event including all returns. So if a race did not run there are no votes.

ACM is a topic for the next committee meeting. But PERSONAL VIEW what will it do?
  • Accounts/reports yes
  • elections yes
  • Rule changes - what mid season? Nope
.
So are we that worried? Or is someone wanting to stand as chair / Treasurer / Member and worried about getting enough votes?
A bigger worry is having enough votes in the room (or e meeting) to count as an election.
We could follow ICF where congress is every two years but they decided not to run this year, put it off to next and just extend the term of the elected.
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

paddlerparent
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by paddlerparent » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:17 am

Canadian Paddler wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:29 pm
For information

Age categories.
Option 1 and Option 4 are the same. Age category for ICF is the age in 2021. Sorry if you missed out on j18 World Championships but that's pandemic for you.

Then that ends the discussion then - am i wrong???


:D :D :D :D

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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by JimW » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:23 pm

We may yet be lucky enough to be able to hold a junior champs as a non ranking competition, if it were to be possible, would that put this debate to bed?

Mark H
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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Mark H » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:46 pm

So would you be Junior champ for one or two years if the race was run this year?

I agree lets get back to some form of racing ASAP. Football and Rugby are back which involve contact
so I am sure that we can manage to get paddlers down a course.

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Re: Age Categories for the 2020/21 Racing Season

Post by Dee » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:58 pm

Are football/rugby matches running at local level?

I'm not convinced that many competitors would turn up in the current environment. A local race might be doable if costs are low, but there are a lot of things to consider so would anyone be prepared to run it. We've not even met up with close friends yet and so are a long way off turning up at a slalom to help etc. Whilst I know that some will be more relaxed, I doubt that we are alone.

Committee meeting tonight and no doubt such things will be discussed, but it is not going to be easy!
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