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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:16 am
by Geebs
OK we seem to have changed the topic some what!!!
But back to the original question on weight, would it not be fairer to make it a "total package" minimum i.e. boat + paddler???
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:38 am
by Phil
I'm all for that, being about 90Kg + it would mean the light young whipper snappers having to carry about 20Kg of lead. Lets see if that slows them down :p
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:36 pm
by Dave Royle
I don't think Jasmine would be too happy paddling a 60kg boat. Perhaps we could strike a compromise at 80kg total and chop bits off anyone who comes in overweight.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:11 am
by Geebs
Dave Royle wrote:I don't think Jasmine would be too happy paddling a 60kg boat. Perhaps we could strike a compromise at 80kg total and chop bits off anyone who comes in overweight.
Do we start at the neck up or the neck down???
Yes it would make it harder for the younger paddlers having to reach a minimum weight, but the end result would be a fair competion.
The other answer of course, is to scrap boat weights completely as in the end there can be no true advantage gained if all the paddlers are different weights, the boat weight may be only 10% of the total package?????
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:31 pm
by lil smurf
When testing and designing any thing includeing rules you always try to find the fairest thing possible. It woul;d not be fair for little paddlers or juniors to hvae to weight them selves up to 90 kgs as they have not developed etc to cope with this strain the best way of keeping things as equal as possible is just the boat. there is too many variables in many sports!
Do raceing cars include the driver? I dont think they do if i am wrong then correct me but i dont think they are. jockeys dont include the horse just the jockey!
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:55 pm
by James
yep, I think they were joking
but in anycase, heavyer people would have an advantage. Having a fixed total weight would be an advantage for people like me. weighing in at 83 kg, I would have a 1 kg boat and can lighten up by sawing my legs off and saveing 4 kg, yet leaving more weight in the upper body to enhance muscle growth.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:04 am
by Geebs
Racing cars are a total weight of car & driver that is why they are weighed seperatly, so it makes it fair for everyone that is competing.
I think it is fair to say that a lot of smaller paddlers float down some courses and get gates that heavier paddlers have to work hard for.
The weight of a boat on it's own has little or no significance to the end result, but it does look pretty with all the spray painted weigh mark's 
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:01 am
by frontman2
It's all about power to weight, not the outright weight. I would've struggled to compete in Slalom if I had had to carry additional weight just to bring me up to an overall minimum. Larger, heavier paddlers generally have the muscle/skeletal strength appropriate to their size, and likewise the smaller paddlers, so for a given fitness level, they ought to be well matched competitively (unless they difffer greatly in technical ability). Although some moves may be easier for light paddlers, some are also easier for the heavier guys.
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:11 pm
by davebrads
To back up what frontman 2 is saying, in racing cars the driver does not provide the motive power, so it doesn't matter how heavy a driver is, the power from the engine is the same. It is totally different for athletes, who have to provide their own power. You wouldn't ask a light 100m sprinter to run with a 20Kg rucksack on his back to make it fair, would you? As frontman 2 says, if you are heavier, in general you are more powerful, so to make the sport totally fair, boats should weigh nothing!
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:55 pm
by Pingu
Pingu wrote:Simple question.
Is there any genuine reason or excuse for a paddler to try and enter a race with an underweight boat?
The original question needs to be asked again.
Overheard at HPP after the race on Saturday.
Paddler 1
"Why haven't you got your weight in your boat?"
Paddler 2
"I take it out if I know that they're not weighing boats at a race"
???
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:51 pm
by davebrads
Answer: No
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:25 pm
by Mrs H
Unfortunately there are always people who will cheat in sport, unfortunately due to man power we cannot weigh boats at every race, however cheats never come out on top in the end. the best way to race and train is in a boat of consistent weight. it would be great to know who it was then they could be dealt with. Boat weighing will become more frequent and as stated earlier weights will have to be fixed during 2nd half of year.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:25 am
by Geebs
Sorry Mrs H, but I do not think that you will find that out, as you say all will become clear when the boats are weighed 2nd half of the year :;):
I do agree that if rules are made that they should be adhered too, but sometimes you have to look at the greater compexities of the sport and there you could go on forever with factors that increase the performance of one boat against another as we all know.
What does concern me is when at any event has anyone took notice of page's 84-85 of the yearbook section 19 which is surely more important than if a boat is underweight or not?
Perhaps we could reconsider our priorities???
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:35 am
by jjpete
Rules are there for a reason.
If you have to cheat to be competitive, what hope is there for you at international events?
I think there should be severe consequences for anyone with an underweight boat.
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:52 pm
by Mrs H
Don't youworry geebs, buoyancy aids are on the agenda but agin unfortunately due to the small number of people thar appear to be willing to help at events it is almost impossible to police EVERY rule. If paddlers were honest we wouldn't have to wast hours of manpower to check!