Airbags in boats at all UK event's

Em · Post by Em » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:37 am

Sorry to argue with you H. As I agree completely air bags should always be used. But the idea that the airbags kept the boat from caving in is ridiculous. It was the position which the boat was in that stopped it from folding/ caving in. The Canadian that we saw last year caved in, even though it did contain air bags.

Dutch Geezer · Post by **Dutch Geezer** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:53 am

Did the airbags save the paddler?

I think this discussion shows that airbags, dont help a swimmer get to the bank, they save equipment.

If you are concerned that your equipment wont get rescued because it doesn't have airbags fitted, then fit them. if you think they will save your boat if you swim, then fit them, but dont complain because they are heavy and you are disadvantaged.

Please do not force the committe to add another safety rule unnescessarily, we have enough problems with the ones we have now.

oops did I really say that.

c1mini · Post by **c1mini** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:02 pm

at internationals are airbags allowed though?

Air bags would not stop a boat from caving in at all, they are just a bit of material with air in it, the only thing they do i make the boat float better with water in it.

Did anyone see chris black swim at treweryn on saturday? He didn't have airbags in and it made rescuing it very difficult, it just got pinned on to every rock making it near impossible to rescue, after much chasing ian got it below the ski slope, which is put ians boat at risk and chris's, so if your not going to roll 100% put airbags in!!

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:57 pm

the whole point entireley

if you think theres a possibiloty of you swimming the yea if you want to use airbage use them

if you dont want to as you are not likley to swim that your decision and your equiptment

to be honest i dont use them but this is because there too much fuss. if your paddlin somewhere hot you have to let them down so as tyou boat doesent eform to be honest its not a problem to me

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:23 am

I notice (without sounding sexist, apart from two ladies post's which also happen to be qualified BCU Coach's and very experianced paddlers) that it is the big strong men that are putting on the post's

If you look at the amount of juniors especially in the womens events you will find there are quite a few U12, J14, J16 paddlers competing in Prem & Div1 etc., they do not have the strength to rescue a boat.

This is where there should be rescue boat's on the water with you big strong men in at event's, as per the BCU recomendations.

Oh sorry is this another rule we forget,,,, ooops did I say that

Dutch Geezer · Post by **Dutch Geezer** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:57 am

When the rules talk about safety , surely they are talking about the paddler. Once he is out of his boat and swimming, safety is all about getting him to a safe point on the riverbank as soon as possible.

His equipment, if its rescued, is a secondary consideration. Harsh I know, but kit can be replaced.

What about the scenario where the first swimmer is half way up the course and his boat goes past the finish. The two competitors sat at the bottom go after the boat and paddle. The next competitor swims just at the finish and gets into difficulties and drowns because his safety cover was trying to save a boat.

I realise this is a bit extreme, but I am trying to highlight the point that safety and rescue is all about the swimmer not his kit.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu May 05, 2005 12:40 am

OK another senario is, who is doing safety for the first two paddlers on the water???

There was an incedent at HPP when the first (prem) paddler swam and there was no safety at the bottom for him or his boat.

Even the best get it wrong sometimes, the BCU guidelines state that there should be a minimum of two boats on the water at the finish, so what happened here can happen again.

Safety in the sport has to be paramount, it is fortunate that nothing serious has happened recently,, but if we neglect safety it will happen and do serious damage to the sport.

If every resonable precaution is taken there can be no comebacks,, but whoe betide it if not.

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:06 pm

yes i agree that there should be two boats on at finish but if the paddlers were actually doing their jobn and staying at the bottom so that there is always two people on then there wouldent be a problem atall.

Mr Fifty · Post by **Mr Fifty** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:18 am

I agree with Beefy that air bags are a pain in the ####. Some years ago i put 2 airbags in the back of my boat, it was a hot day at Darley Abbey and when i got back from the pub at lunchtime i found my boat had expanded and the seams had split

lil smurf · Post by **lil smurf** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:09 pm

Well Geebs if you can collate enough people that are prepaired to sit on the water all day long then you can provide the safety.

I know i do not use air bags ( and yes i am female) and never really have. Not even when i did play boating. Why would some one want to buy a brand new sparkley boat and have it nicely at race weight then add air bags to it. Last year there was a post about them about this time of year and nothing changed there.

I dont recon that it is fair you saying that if a boat has no air bags you wont save it! I rescued a boat at the bottom of the ski slope as well and it didnt have air bags.

The paddlers safety is most important as always once the padder is out then rescue a boat but even then its not right to say fine it has none so i wont help but i would.

Another thing about air bags is theat they can ruin a boat!!!!!!!!!! If you take a boat abroad in the heat and dont reduce the air bags they will expand and put lumps in the deck of your boat i have seen them last year!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:46 pm

I think that everyone would have enough sense to realise that when air gets heated in a closed container it expand's, so you should always be aware of the change in temperature.

All I can say is that none of our club coach's would let you on moving water without airbags. This is not uncommon within clubs and is usually the norm.

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:35 pm

There is a move towards that in our club too, but they are not able to really give a good reason for it (a bit like yourself, Geebs).

The attitude stinks. It reminds me of the HSE advice about not swimming in open water. Alright, a very small number of people are killed swimming each year, but there are often other factors that lead to the death. The HSE's answer is to ban swimming in open water - a total over-reaction. Contrast this with France, where swimming in lakes is positively encouraged. Saying this, I can't understand why they insist on airbags, c'est la vie.

Risk assessment should be used to examine the real risks of an activity, rather than a blanket rule that helps nobody.

When I am coaching an inexperienced paddler on grade 3 water or above, where I believe there is a good likelihood of a capsize, and the paddler has not got a good roll, then airbags are essential, at least to ensure the fast retrieval of the boat, if for no other reason. Below grade three they are not very useful, as the boat can be retrieved pretty quickly and safely anyway.

Train2Win · Post by **Train2Win** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:20 pm

I can't believe its come to this...compulsory airbags? Are you serious?

If you think its possible you might swim or aren't confident with your roll then you have the option to use airbags. But at elite level, where you are unlikely to swim and have a rock solid roll, what use are airbags? They are just a waste of money and a pointless increase in weight (in slalom generally you want a light boat, with a small weight to take it to 9kg, located on the centre of gravity to aid turning speed).

All this rule would do would annoy our elite paddlers and put us at a disadvantage to foreign paddlers, whose governing bodies don't feel the need to legislate on issues that should be common sense.

Come on guys, if young paddlers,novices, ladies etc. feel they need airbags just in case they swim...fair enough, but to make senior elite athletes use them is ridiculous. Enough interference by the "nanny state" is enough!!

frontman2 · Post by **frontman2** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:01 am

Well said Train2win. I think this is such a non-issue. Airbags should be used at the discretion of the paddler, not made compulsory. It would be a right pain to have to rip all my fittings out of the boat to get any airbags in anyway.

Kev.S · Post by **Kev.S** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:15 pm

Airbags in boats, I am on rescue at HPP soon for a div 2 event, big water for the youngsters and believe me it will make my life easier if the boats have bags in them, the div 1 and prem they should make their own choices they should be able to cope with most water conditions