boat weighing

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:47 am

I think the idea of having the scales at some events so you can check your boat weight is great. You could then go along with glue & weights and get it exact. How about it???

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:19 am

As I have already said it is impossible to have weighing at every race due to manpower (or womenpower!) and I will not commit to anything, however the one guarantee I can make is that they WILL be at all selection races. Most boat manufacturers have scale (or should have) who could check when you take delivery so you know how much weight to add. If you are paddling last years boat you should already have the relevant weight in it. Anyone wishing to volunteer to weigh boats at races please contact me!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:26 am

That's fine if you have a new boat and you trust the manufacturer. Would the jury accept the excuse "Well XYZ Kayaks Ltd said it weighed 7.5kg so I added 1.5 kg" if it is found to be underweight - I think not, since they will rely on the perennial answer that it is the paddler's responsibility. It is, but it would be helpful to be able to weigh the boat accurately beforehand, and probably less costly (1) in terms of man/womanpower for the organisers, (think of the time spent arguing/looking into appeals/etc), and (2) in terms of disappointment for the paddler who thought they were paddling a legal boat. Better by far to get it right beforehand.

On the other hand, if you buy secondhand the chances are that the previous owner has already removed the lead weights so that they don't have to go climbing churches!!! Perhaps advertisers on the website should be forced to state if they are selling "ex-plumbum"?

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:06 am

As someone with "Boat up to weight" on my todo list I'd say it'd be very useful to have some scales somewhere to test with. Do I trust what the sticker in the boat says, how much does that seat weigh, how much did I cut off the thigh braces, how accurate are my bathroom scales and why do the kitchen scales only go up to 5kg? I don't mind going slightly over 9kg but I don't really want to be 10kg given how much extra I'm already carrying above the seat!

Seeing as I don't have a yearbook yet can somebody confirm that airbags count as part of the fixed weight now (before I glue in too little lead)?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:16 pm

1) The ACM agreed with an exec motion that airbags are part of the weight of a boat.
2) If we can find some way of getting scales to me, or Tees, then I am willing to take scales to Tees, but as I am 'competing' on Saturday I cannot commit to boat weighing Saturday, just to making them available for people to check their boats. I suspect that Sunday I will be busy section judging so again will nto be able to weigh all boats.

Uniting scales and I depends on where they are. I will be at Sheppy this Saturday if they are near there. If they are at HPP, perhaps I can ask Kate to rbing them back if they can get to her on Thursday evening session
Unless Cleveland have someone that could supervise the weighing for us.

Richie · Post by **Richie** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:42 pm

If you ever need scales, there are a good set at Nottingham. Just ask in slalom control.

mwilk · Post by **mwilk** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:24 pm

I am new to the sport but am I missing something ? It may have changed for 2006 but on page 75 of the 2005 yearbook, 7.1.2.;
"There are no longer any minimum measurements of boats in domestic competition"

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:06 pm

rats a typographical error!

Came in in 2005 when K1s went from 4m to 3.5 m, and still there for 2006. "No longer any minimum" SHOULD be against boat length/width. I think I tried to help with prrof reading and missed it. Sorry

Glad I am not secretary any more. I will contnue to try to have my boat near the minimum weight, but do not want to be on teh jury when the first boat is excluded for being under weight.

NB ICF rule still has minimum weight without exclusion, so if you want to paddle abroad your boat will have to be the right weight. :p

fison · Post by **fison** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:07 pm

Just like in some other sports there tools are under weight ie cars boats horses(jockeys) boxers etc

Just get it write the first time

OR AND IF WE DO HAVE TO GET OUR BOATS WEIGHED DO ANY ONE KNOW IF WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT SPRAY PAINT ON THE BOAT AGAIN :p

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:35 pm

2006 Yearbook Rule 7.1.2 page 69 states;

Minimum weight of boats (the minimum weight of the boat is determined when the boat is dry and may incude airbags)

All types of K1 : 9 kg
All types of C1 : 10 kg
All types of C2 : 15 kg

So it is in black and white so there is no excuses.

There is still the clause "There are no longer any minimum measurements in domestic competition."

But I would take that to mean in respect of 7.1.1 "Minimum length 3.50 m minimum width 0.60 m ,,,,,,,,,etc."

If I was acting as Chair of a Jury that is how I would interperate it. I would hope that this would be the norm with all organisers?

Mr Fifty · Post by **Mr Fifty** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:42 pm

Dont take this lightly!
I feel sorry for all you lightweights having to ballast up your boats, i dont have that problem being in the super heavy weight catagory.
But for Petes sake be careful when handling lead its extremely poisonous so wash your hands afterwards, and make sure its glued in properly we dont want it falling out into our drinking water do we. Lead is slowly being removed from our lives, lead pipes, lead in paint, leaded petrol, Fishermans lead weights, lead shot from shotguns used over wetlands, lead in your pencil!
On a lighter note you could try something even heavier than lead, Just nip down to Sellafield and ask if they can spare some Plutonium it will make your boat glow in the dark and slalom poles will just vapourise as you go.

mwilk · Post by **mwilk** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:51 am

Two points on this;
1. The sentence – in bold – “There are no longer any minimum measurements of boats in domestic competition.” is contained within 7.1.2 which describes minimum weights. The two sections 7.1.1. and 7.1.2. give the impression that the minimum weight/length/width only applies to “Any competitors in British Teams or Squads Selection events”. The word ‘measurement’ that in everyday terms is thought of as length/width actually refers to the quantification of any parameter [weight, temperature, time, etc.] so you can’t say that the “….no longer…” piece clearly refers to length/width only.
I have no particular reason to be pedantic about this, but I don’t think you can enforce the rule this year. As one of the earlier comments says, given the lack of transparency in 7.1, you “wouldn’t want to be on a jury if a boat was excluded for being under weight”. If I’d travelled 200 miles to have two 2 minute races and you’d told me I was disqualified for having a 8.95 kg boat, I don’t think I’d say ‘fair cop’ and walk away.
2. Speaking as someone who has been responsible for boat weighing at a GB selection event I would also add that it is not possible to enforce the rule in practical terms either. In my experience competitors were gluing stones or silly little pieces of lead [which as a biochemist I know isn’t toxic when just handled in its metallic form, by the way] just forward of the seat. These would have been easy to remove and then it or a handful of mud thrown back into boat as you as you got out of the water to cover post-run weighing. In most cases paddlers were looking to make up 50 g on a dry boat [and there lies another complication]. This is less than 0.1% of the weight of average paddler + boat. Fair enough at that level if you are timing to 0.01 secs but is it really worth enforcing for domestic competition ? Besides anything else, it’s an extra volunteer you’ll need to find for what is an onerous task – though most competitors were OK, I still felt like I was a member of the Gestapo.

My guess is that virtually every new boat, when measured dry, will be underweight. Given the holes in the ruling and the impracticality of checking boat weights, I think it’s best left alone for 2006.

jim croft · Post by **jim croft** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:36 am

There will be a statement re the mistake going on Nicks website
Jim

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:26 am

Yes, it is a problem for super light weights under 50kg, with muscles still under development.

ali · Post by **ali** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:23 pm

It would be nice to have the scales around at some of the races for people to voluntarily weigh their boats on and then there's no excuse later if they are officially weighed and found to be under weight.

Having struggled with my boat on the bathroom scales and used my kitchen scales to weigh my lead I couldn't say exactly how much it all weighs now.

Ali