boat weighing

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:12 pm

We got the scales out today at HPP and weighed our boats- Thanks to the Slalom Control guys.

Even if the rules are somewht ambiguous in the yearbook, we all know what they should say and do you really want to be at the start wondering what arguments you are going to use at the finish to justify why you tipped a load of water into your boat before getting off.

Get you boat weighed. Weight it so it is a fifty or a hundred grammes over (just in case there is an accuracy problem on the scales) and forget about the rule and concentrate on your paddling.

The only time you'll notice is when you are carrying the boat back to the start.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:14 pm

You can buy a set of handheld scales for about a fiver at most fishing tackle shops that weigh up to 22kg.

Whilst these are not 100% accurate to the gram they would at least show if a boat was near enough the correct weight and would be far easier to transport to events than the digital ones that HPP have? They would even fit in your pocket and could be suspended from a tree or the shelter at Tully etc. and calibrated on site with a set weight.

I was looking at some new boats at Sowerby at the weekend and some manufacturers very kindly put the weight of the boat on their plate, some were as low as 7.8kg and the highest I saw was 8.4kg.

Obviously if you paid slightly more you could get a much more accurate set, but could handheld scales be the way to go at events?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:49 pm

Just remember that the weight put in the boat by the manufacturer may be before fitting out, e.g. may not include seat, foortrest, and (see other topic) airbags. So a boat marked as 8.4 Kg has only 600g for seat etc to come up to the 9Kg minimum

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:07 pm

True, but if the boat weighs 7.8kg + a seat say 400gm and 500gm for footrests because they are not heavy it would still be 300gm underweight, if the paddler chose not to fit airbags.

Be interesting to find out exactly what weight the plate actually refers too? Perhaps our learned friends in the industry can shed some light on it?

guest · Post by **guest** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:09 pm

ours was weight without footplates and seat, just the bare boat

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:11 pm

Guest wrote:ours was weight without footplates and seat, just the bare boat

And what weight was it? as a matter of interest and what does it weigh now with the seat etc?

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:26 pm

Geebs wrote:You can buy a set of handheld scales for about a fiver at most fishing tackle shops that weigh up to 22kg.

Whilst these are not 100% accurate to the gram they would at least show if a boat was near enough the correct weight and would be far easier to transport to events than the digital ones that HPP have? They would even fit in your pocket and could be suspended from a tree or the shelter at Tully etc. and calibrated on site with a set weight.

Obviously if you paid slightly more you could get a much more accurate set, but could handheld scales be the way to go at events?

I always use calibrated electronic scales to weigh boats and add 100g incase the event organiser is not prepared to do the same. If the organiser proposed to string my boat up on a fisherman's scale I would tell him to P*** Off. Friction in that type of scale is too high and the reading far too inaccurate.

Near enough is not acceptable. The scales have to be calibrated and accurate. What weight would you accept with a fisherman's scale. 8.5kg, 8.0kg.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:05 am

Just to add another scenario in, what happens at an event if someone protests the weight of a boat and there are no scales there?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:51 pm

Technicality - pg 87 rule 36.1
Protests may be made against the published score, time and/or penalties, or against the decision of an Organiser (e.g. on a re-run).

No word of boat weight being appealable - although could come in as rule 39.1 means that illegal boat should = disqualification!

Practice Almost certainly unconsitiutional words from the chairman, a word with the offender, and if necessary a frantic hunt for a weight and some scales. Never been chair in such a situation (thank goodness)

lightweight · Post by **lightweight** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:44 pm

CP, wasn't someone disqualified at hpp a few years ago for using an underweight boat?

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:08 pm

Yes I think you're right, someone was disqualified, but the boat was weighed with a calibrated electronic scale so no argument. Spring balance for weighing fish would not count as such.

If someone has a light boat and the organiser has no scales available what are you going to do? Answer - Nothing.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:01 am

So would the protest be upheld? or not?

In other sports the offending piece of equipment would be confiscated so it could not be altered and then checked before retuning it to it's owner so an independant verification could be made before making a decision if it was legal or not.

I'm not suggesting that boats are confiscated as this would cause a major logistic problem, but if there is not an easy solution to the problem, then why have a weight rule at all if it can not be enforced?

Perhaps the manufacturers could certify the new boats as being the correct weight when they leave the factory, by weighing them with a seat and footrests and adding extra weight if needed?

guest · Post by **guest** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:59 am

Trouble with that it's where you add the weight that matters. It's one of the few ways you can fine tune your boat, and thats before we get onto fixed vs removable weights!!!

Dan Goddard · Post by **Dan Goddard** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:24 am

In this case the protest could not be upheld because you cannot protest against someone elses results.

Also in this case there are no scales available before the event so how can the paddler with the under weight boat make sure his/her boat is upto weight if scales are not available.

I feel there should be boat measurements and helmet/buoyancy aid checking, at every event! Not just boat weighing.

But if we do have this lets do it properlly. Have boat control with sprays and random checking of all boat mesurements applicable to the event.

End radius on boats is never checked.

Dan

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:14 am

Disqualification for low boat weights does happen but this can only be at races where boats are weighed. Unfortunately due to lack of willing people to help at events this usually ends up falling on me! At HPP it had to take place up by Mid Course control as I was also needed in timing! Inconvenient I know for paddlers having to trudge their boats there but it was either that or they wouldn,t be done.

As for other checks in the ideal world this should be done but again without willing assistants this is very difficult to administer.

This is particulalry so when the Slalom Committee are organisers as there arn't too many of us not already heavily involved in races. So please if there are clubs out there that want to run races we would be delighted to hand them over!!!!!!!!!!!!

So come one all of you out there, all it needs is more people to offer to give up a bit of time at each race and these things could be done. The more that help the less each person has to do.