running order - Why do the high bib numbers go first?

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:19 pm

I'm really confused why the high bib numbers go first. These are by definition the weakest paddlers and often like myself old and slow. So why do they go first with the young speedy ones powering down behind them only then to get whistled off? If the fast low bib numbers went first then they could speed off and the high bib, slower paddlers could go behind at a narrower start time interval. This would also give the less able paddlers the chance to watch the experts at work before they got on the water. There would also be more experienced paddlers at the bottom of the course to rescue, if disaster strikes.
So why? Can anybody help?

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:08 pm

Going off last is a privilage which is earned by being high ranked. The best guys don't want to give away the best way of doing a particular sequence. that's for everyone to work out for themselves.

Also. Best going off first would make for a boring race to watch. First result comes in. That's it.

Graeme · Post by **Graeme** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:29 pm

Dave Royle wrote:Also. Best going off first would make for a boring race to watch. First result comes in. That's it.

ultimately i think thats what its about.....everysport follows the same format as it makes better spectating

jke · Post by **jke** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:56 pm

oldandslow wrote:... the young speedy ones powering down behind them only then to get whistled off?

It's not as bad as that. if you paddle in ability order the difference between two consecutive paddlers is slight.

I don't know what division you have in mind but in my experience, for the lower divisions, particularly 4, where there is likely to be a greater difference, if it is pointed out to Starter that there is a slow one about to go, he is given a larger gap.

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:02 am

OK, fair point! I'll just have to try harder and paddle faster then won't I! The race of the underdog to excite the crowds, instead of chatting to the spectators on the way down!
I suppose it is quite a good feeling to be 1st for 1 minute at least!

parent · Post by **parent** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:39 am

jke wrote:if it is pointed out to Starter that there is a slow one about to go, he is given a larger gap.

Unfortunately at Tully some young paddlers asked and were told , no extra time.

not slow · Post by **not slow** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:51 pm

another case of running before you can walk.....if people are catching you up your in the wrong race

Gill · Post by **Gill** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:23 pm

Guest wrote:another case of running before you can walk.....if people are catching you up your in the wrong race

I paddle slowly & some how got into Div 2 at the end of the season.

I had a choice don't paddle slalom again or ask for extra time - I've never been turned down for the extra time in Div 3 or in Div 2 this weekend & I'm grateful to those starters who allow me that

If it was a case of being caught up & whistled off I would not be paddling slalom anymore - I know I'll never be great at it, but I actually enjoy paddling slalom

To say we shouldn't be paddling in the race because we're slow is unfair - people need time to get used to the water - I know if I had been comfy with the water at Matlock I would have been a lot quicker, but that comes with time & experience.

Do you expect people to get promoted, then go off & practice before they enter the higher division or are they allowed to get used to the water whilst competing? Perhaps we should have a cut off time for paddlers if you can't paddle 100 metres in a certain time you're not welcome to enter the event

Of course there are slower paddlers in the divisions & as an organiser I expect people to be sensitive to this & to accomodate them

other geust · Post by **other geust** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:57 pm

division 2 and your not comfortable with matlock ???

om my, thats worrying

Slow Paddler · Post by **Slow Paddler** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:01 am

There's lots of Div 2's not happy at Matlock. Take a look at the results, lots of missed gates - mostly due to people not wanting to paddle into / across the flow to get the gates.

Considering the low numbers entering slalom shouldn't we be encouraging everyone not slating them

It is not difficult to get into Div 2 whilst paddling flat water

Everyone needs to learn - people enjoy slaloms but it can be difficult when people have that sort of attitude in the last few posts

You may be fine on the water, let others have the chance to develop their skills - there's no need to slate them - why people feel the need to discourage people who try i don't know

I know of quite a few paddlers who enjoy slalom but feel it is 'eliteist' & don't enter as they don't appreciate comments about them struggling with the gates or the water

Why can't we encourage not slate - the amount of people who want to enter slalom events, but won't because of this sort of attitude - shouldn't all be encouraged despite their abilities

not slow · Post by **not slow** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:08 am

yes develope your skill but you shouldnt be promoted into a division your not capable of paddling in my opinion.

next promotion level is div 1.....your going to be paddling town falls, the graveyard.....yet the division below people are missing gates on flat water!!!

promotion should be made more difficult and events after div 4 shouldnt be held on flat water...its just to easy clearly

parent · Post by **parent** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:30 am

Guest wrote:another case of running before you can walk.....if people are catching you up your in the wrong race

Excuse me but they were running 10 mins behind time early on and I belive trying to catch up, therefore not even giving a respectable distance between racers! My two are both well established paddlers and can certainly run, and well beyond the walk stage!!!!!
There is quite a difference between top ten div one and those below. e.g. at Tryweryn there was 15 seconds between fist and hlaf way down the board, and 47 seconds between the fastest who got all the gates and the slowest who got all the gates. Do you only want a handful of paddlers in Div1?????

FatBoy · Post by **FatBoy** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:42 am

Start gaps are a fine balance. On one hand you don't want competitors who are doing their best being caught up, on the other you don't want to be finishing under the floodlights, particularly when as on Sunday you have over 320 runs to get in during the day. I think the starters both on the bank and in control did a superb job over the weekend.

"not slow" - your attitude is exactly the sort of one being discussed on the Tully thread. The world does not revolve around you. Many of the paddlers making up the numbers are the same people who put tireless effort into organising races. Yes there are Div 2's who struggle on Div 2 water the same as there are Div 1's who struggle on Div 1 water, and the same for every division, but it's not their fault - they were/are too good for the lower division. If you can think of a better suggestion for the structure of slalom competition then please do so rather than having a go at other people.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:14 pm

It is the very nature of competitions that someone has to come last, and where speed is part of the measure then that someone will, by definition, be slower than the winner. Assume lots of entries and you have to have a spread of speed and ability otherwise everyone would draw for first place! As the old saying goes "..it's the taking part that matters..".

It can sometimes be the case that people get promoted before they are ready, but if they are willing to try at the next level even if it means taking it slowly or risking a swim then they should be applauded and encouraged.

There can't be many paddlers who have never missed a gate and never swum. And I bet that a fair proportion have been caught up at some time during their paddling career.

Pingu · Post by **Pingu** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:14 pm

I believe that at Division 2 and below, paddlers should be able to ask for (and be given) additional time. Usually entry numbers at Div 2's tend to allow this and organisers seem relaxed.

It is more difficult in Division 1 and above as water time is often limited and entries are generally higher.

I remember one season when I had a bib number just in front of a pretty fast paddler. I got whistled off in loads of races. I didn't feel comfortable asking for extra time at a Div 1 race. It wasn't fun but it made me try harder to cut out errors to prevent it happening.

So, by all means, ask for extra time, but don't be offended if it is not given.