I have a point that fits nicely on the back of this topic.
I agree that all disciplines must cooperate, but i would like to point out to any playboaters (and new slalom paddlers) that often slalomists get irritated when playboaters sit in gate lines. Playboaters have often got out of my way, but then blocked the gate I'm tryin to do by accident, or sit and rest in gates, when they're needed for training. I know i am far more likely to get into a disagreement with someone if i've had to do 6 walkbacks instead of three due to gate unavailability.
It would be nice to make people more aware of the needs of paddlers on the course, and perhaps more experienced slalomists/playboaters could communicate course etiquette to the less experienced paddlers, for example that bloking gates/eddies really isn't useful.
attitude
right i'll have to say my 2 pence worth...
There are good and bad points to come out of the age old relationship...
for example..one thursday night me and a fellow elderly,tall matlock,prem paddler which shall remain nameless were sat in the pyramid pool talking about the prearranged course, when i playboater passed us and said" excuse me guys which way are you going down the looping pool?"...we said " right"...he said " oh right, i know what your up to, i'll watch out for you"...we both agreed...lovely bloke....and such as easy thing to do to resolve a potentially annoying situation.
however the bad....(the same night, different paddler-some would say inexperienced) whilst performing an up right in the looping pool- going into the breakout is fine...we are given plenlty of space, but as soon as we are in the gate line, some playboaters think this is the cue to have a play in the stopper, whilst this puts the slalom boater off the move, by not knowing what the playboater's skills are like and whether they are live to pop out and crash into the exiting slalom paddler. I dont thik its too much to ask to wait an extra couple of seconds for us to leave and paddle on...is it really!!??
I just wish that some of them would take part in a slaom training session and see the difficulties that on some nights us slaom paddlers have to cope with.....
There are good and bad points to come out of the age old relationship...
for example..one thursday night me and a fellow elderly,tall matlock,prem paddler which shall remain nameless were sat in the pyramid pool talking about the prearranged course, when i playboater passed us and said" excuse me guys which way are you going down the looping pool?"...we said " right"...he said " oh right, i know what your up to, i'll watch out for you"...we both agreed...lovely bloke....and such as easy thing to do to resolve a potentially annoying situation.
however the bad....(the same night, different paddler-some would say inexperienced) whilst performing an up right in the looping pool- going into the breakout is fine...we are given plenlty of space, but as soon as we are in the gate line, some playboaters think this is the cue to have a play in the stopper, whilst this puts the slalom boater off the move, by not knowing what the playboater's skills are like and whether they are live to pop out and crash into the exiting slalom paddler. I dont thik its too much to ask to wait an extra couple of seconds for us to leave and paddle on...is it really!!??
I just wish that some of them would take part in a slaom training session and see the difficulties that on some nights us slaom paddlers have to cope with.....
yer, obviously I know where you're coming from with that, we've all had playboaters sitting in gates/eddies/waves when we want to use them but its probably the same for them.... they have to queue to get on waves/ in stoppers and don't want to have to get off it in the middle of a turn/run (whatever they call it) for us to plough through. But i'd agree there are plenty of situations where they could avoid sitting in gates/eddies that we're blatently heading for. I think its all about experience, the more you know about whats going on/ can control where ur going!, the less trouble/annoyance there will be both ways.
I have been watching this topic with interest and some of the last comments made me smile especially PaulR's statement (sorry Paul).
Our group of paddlers go to HPP nearly every Tuesday night, one week they do slalom training and the opposite week they playboat, most of them are div1/2 paddlers so they know about gate lines etc. etc. they also give way to slalom paddlers doing training sessions when they are playboating, sometimes they can be sat in an eddy for 5-10 mins waiting for a group to finish there run's, which they don't mind, what you do tend to find though is a certain few slalom paddlers (and I could name names) in slalom boats deliberatly sat in a wave usually at the Muncher playboating and holding up everyone, slalom and playboaters alike!
When are group are slalom training they also respect the playboater who is sat in The Office or the Muncher enjoying their self, lets face it we all pay the same to get on the water! We usually have bank support who signal the the paddlers either when doing slalom or playboating that it is clear, I know that this is a luxury for most groups but in our case it works.
Realistically we have very few white water courses in the UK for training and playing and we all have to share what we have. I agree i have watched some "playboaters" at HPP and to be honest I do not believe they should have been let on the course as their standard of paddling was not up to that grade of water, this is something that has to be addressed by HPP and other courses.
Cross training is a benefit to all disiplines and it would be interesting to see some more slalom paddlers in playboats ???
I think the moral behind this is simply we all have to get along and share the few resources we have to further paddlesport and along the way someone is bound to upset someone at sometime unfortunatly.
Our group of paddlers go to HPP nearly every Tuesday night, one week they do slalom training and the opposite week they playboat, most of them are div1/2 paddlers so they know about gate lines etc. etc. they also give way to slalom paddlers doing training sessions when they are playboating, sometimes they can be sat in an eddy for 5-10 mins waiting for a group to finish there run's, which they don't mind, what you do tend to find though is a certain few slalom paddlers (and I could name names) in slalom boats deliberatly sat in a wave usually at the Muncher playboating and holding up everyone, slalom and playboaters alike!
When are group are slalom training they also respect the playboater who is sat in The Office or the Muncher enjoying their self, lets face it we all pay the same to get on the water! We usually have bank support who signal the the paddlers either when doing slalom or playboating that it is clear, I know that this is a luxury for most groups but in our case it works.
Realistically we have very few white water courses in the UK for training and playing and we all have to share what we have. I agree i have watched some "playboaters" at HPP and to be honest I do not believe they should have been let on the course as their standard of paddling was not up to that grade of water, this is something that has to be addressed by HPP and other courses.
Cross training is a benefit to all disiplines and it would be interesting to see some more slalom paddlers in playboats ???
I think the moral behind this is simply we all have to get along and share the few resources we have to further paddlesport and along the way someone is bound to upset someone at sometime unfortunatly.
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
1 solution would be to have time slots! Have a rota system where slalom paddlers have a certain time and playboaters have another! Difficult to set up but would stop a great deal of arguments.
The worst situation is when you are doing full runs and you get to the muncher section and a playboater pulls out infront of you destroying your run. For people like myself (getting on abit) I cant just run up and do another (ive only got a few full runs/ session in me).
Conversley I have also been training at Nottingham and a group of slalom paddlers have walked down the course and moved gates whilst I was training. I do feel that this happens on quite a few occasions as well.
We have to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad mannered people in all disciplines. Point and case premier race on the gaveyard-freestyle event on the stilling basin few years back. About to do my run, playboater decides to run down the graveyard infront of me! Not the best prep for the run. Anway lets say my attitude towards that paddler wasnt too good!!!!
The worst situation is when you are doing full runs and you get to the muncher section and a playboater pulls out infront of you destroying your run. For people like myself (getting on abit) I cant just run up and do another (ive only got a few full runs/ session in me).
Conversley I have also been training at Nottingham and a group of slalom paddlers have walked down the course and moved gates whilst I was training. I do feel that this happens on quite a few occasions as well.
We have to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad mannered people in all disciplines. Point and case premier race on the gaveyard-freestyle event on the stilling basin few years back. About to do my run, playboater decides to run down the graveyard infront of me! Not the best prep for the run. Anway lets say my attitude towards that paddler wasnt too good!!!!
mikey wrote:Conversley I have also been training at Nottingham and a group of slalom paddlers have walked down the course and moved gates whilst I was training. I do feel that this happens on quite a few occasions as well.
So it is not just us that this happens too? what makes it worse is that they stand and watch you first so they know you are using those gates
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
The worst culprits are the coaches. A coached group have a definite advantage when it comes to gate placement, the coaches can move the gates while their charges are sitting on the water. I've had gates moved on me more than once, and as you say, the coaches can see you using the gates before they move them.
Bah, World Class mutter mutter
Bah, World Class mutter mutter
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raeofsunshine
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:12 am
Have to say (PLEASE NO ONE HAVE A GO AT ME) that it is often the coaches and parents (obviously not all) who encourage this bad attitude. I had a bad experience at the weekend at Bala (no i wont mention names or details as i could have handled it better) but it did leave me asking 'what happened to good sportsmanship/ teaching good sportsmanship?' Surely this should be an integral part of coaching sessions rather then letting youngsters think the are the bees knees!!