Bow Rudders - how have they changed

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:33 pm

I have been paddling for quite a while now, as some of you know, and when I started I was taught to do a bow rudder in front of me. In this way the boat would turn without losing too much speed through the turn. The idea of tuning round a gate was to maintain the speed of the boat through the turn, so that you didn't have to expend energy getting the boat up to speed. An important factor was to lean towards the bow rudder so that the stern did not dig in, slowing the turn, I remember being berated by a coach because I was sticking the tail down on a breakout. Of course, boats had much higher volume sterns in those days.

Nowadays, the stroke has move backwards, and become more complex, and good edging has become an important component of the success of the stroke.

I have been trying to pinpoint when the change happened. We had an ex-British team paddler down at our club the other day, just doing a bit of training (he doesn't race any more). He was on the team about 25 years ago, and he definately leaned towards the paddle on his bow rudder, and coincidentally we had an ex-Junior team paddler from about 20 years ago, who leant away from his paddle. I reckon that the change occurred when the Image and the Extra were introduced, which was about 1983. Are there any other old fogies out there that can offer a better insight?

Dave A · Post by **Dave A** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:28 pm

I was always told to keep the bodyweight forward, "lean into the rudder" I remember always being told to NOT to allow the top arm to move above or behind the head, to protect the shoulder joint from potential dislocation. "Brace the forearm on the forehead" is a phrase I recall. Also to put a subtle bit of edging in on the opossitte side the the rudder. This would be around 1985.

I am now seeing a lot of top arms high and above the head this along with "dipping the stern" as paddlers reach back to the stern to gain "leverage". More of what looks as a pivot stroke seems to be the norm. This is much easier now with short boats and little bouyancy in the tail.

Train2Win · Post by **Train2Win** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:45 pm

Its all a matter of positioning, in my opinion on many ups it is still faster to keep the top arm in front of the head and the boat flat. On many ups upstream lean can be used subtly to clear water from the stern and squirt the boat out of the up.

Some paddlers prefer the behind the head position because some think it is a stronger position to pivot from, I'm not convinced! I essence the bow rudder hasn't changed in the 10 years I've been paddling. I was taught to put the rudder in above the pole and keep my weight forward and I still aim to do this, though when on WW and coming tight on gates, there is a natural tendancy to lean back and dip the stern, it is still faster in most cases to keep forward though in my opinion, as you do not need to bring the bow down again in order to re-accelerate out of the up. Also the boat will track better with weight forward.

jke · Post by **jke** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:20 pm

I competed in the early 70's and the boats were too high volume to do anything fancy. Move forward to the late 70's and my club mates at the time were doing stern dips with the likes of the Cosmic and Shadow. This was to get the boat under the pole. As far as I can remember, I wasn't paddling slalom at the time, this was achieved with a standard bow rudder placement and outside edging. If you didn't have a pole to dip under the edging wasn't necessary. I don't believe there was any consideration of reducing the effective waterline length by dipping or squirting at that time.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:56 pm

This is going back a bit, must admit I was taught and teach the bow rudder with the weight forward and the paddle in front of the body. Realise some of the new school types almost reach behind and the have tended to bring in the stern pivot (in my younger days that was a C1 turn). Seem to remember that the actual turn was more akin to the boat rather than any intention to shorten water length etc. The old Olymps generally didn't dip much and the boat was kept relatively flat, Meisters/Electra etc were low-line and kept flat as if you squirted the tail they tended not to recover. The stern pivot turn used to be effective in the days of reverse gates with the spin move and the spin for a merano breakout, but then the current spin breakout seems to be a modification of the spin, spinning the boat under the pole and effectively sitting up to pass the body through the gate.

I tend to think that the bow rudder itself is still much the same stroke sequence, the degree of body rotation has always been related to strength and confidence. I would not teach placing the upper hand behind the head as it can pronate the shoulder and also tends to either lift the blade in the water or get a head in the way of the paddle when resuming the forward paddle stroke. Generally I teach forward of the paddler and to maximise the depth of the blade in the water.

As for an age when it changed, I remember there were those who hyper-rotated and leaned back in the days of high volume boats albeit they were generally held up as being of poor technique - even when they were beating you! I suspect the change as being later than the mid-80s once presentation rules were removed and efforts were made to design a fast straight line boat, if anything I would suggest that it may have been closer to the time of the Reflex in the early 90's.

Surprised we haven't heard from Canadian Paddler on this as i know he was paddling way back then and as a kneeler he be more up on the use of the pivot turn?

jojo · Post by **jojo** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:21 pm

I must be getting old - I'm in agreement with you guys on this - I was taught that bow rudders should be in front of the body, with the arm braced across the head and the boat flat with good depth of the blade to get the leverage. As a level 2 slalom coach I worry about the damage done to shoulder joints of young paddlers who are being taught to bow rudder further back and use a stern pivot. I commented on this to the father of a 16 year old girl who is currently in Div 1 - in my mind she is constantly risking a dislocated shoulder, but he assured me that her slalom coach says she has a good strong bow rudder and they have great hopes for her future!

newideas · Post by **newideas** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:23 pm

Hmm. Surely if you are doing the stroke behind the body it is no longer a bow rudder, i always thought the bow was the part of the boat infront of the paddler (unless of course you're a rower and so do everything backwards)
In all seriousness though i was always taught to have the bow rudder infront of me. This is in a plastic boat though, is it different in slalom?

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:25 pm

The old idea of holding the blade in the water in front of you really isn't very effective in modern whitewater boats, whether slalom or plastic. It depends on the boat maintaining its speed in the water through the turn, modern boats have too much rocker, and pretty much come to a halt as soon as you stop paddling forwards.

Sometimes it is necesary to put the blade in the water behind the body, but I understood that if it is done properly you should twist your body so that your top hand does not go behind your head. Saying this, an increasing of people do put their top hand behind the head, even some top paddlers.

The danger of a shoulder dislocation has been given as a reason for not doing this, but I have never heard of an instance of a shoulder dislocation through doing a pivot turn, in my experience it has always come from a failed support stroke. Because of this I have not stopped anyone from doing it, expecially if they are getting good results. If anyone has seen or experienced a dislocation through poor pivot turn technique, it would be interesting to hear about it.