How to get rid of the run from #### - or When is a re-run not a re-run?

66-1146487544 · Post by **66-1146487544** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:37 pm

Just been looking at both the ICF Slalom rules and the UK Slalom rules and as far as I can tell there are none that govern the awarding of re-runs. No guidance is provided at all on the situations in which they should be applied. Just an assumption that the chief judge of the jury will apply a well established set of criteria that have been handed down to them over the years.

Perhaps now is the time we should start to question how re-runs are awarded in our sport.

I don't think anyone would argue that if a paddler impedes another paddler during their run that they shouldn't be given a re-run. But what about the paddler that argues that just because there was another paddler on the course who has successfully got out of their way but who has distracted them should be given a re-run? It's happened this year at least once!

I don't think anyone would argue that if a paddler is impeded by a branch that chooses just that moment to float through the course that they shouldn't be given a re-run. But what about a branch that is off the course altogether that only comes in to play because the paddler is having a run from h£ll - should the course organiser have foreseen such an eventuality and cleared every possible hazard off the course in order to reduce the risk of re-runs being requested or is that just taking things too far?

Taking this a step further. What if the paddler has already had the run from h£ll before that point and has at least one 50 second penalty counting against them and then managers to get 'impeded' by some obstacle that is off the course and has been there for every other paddler before them.

Too good an opportunity to miss? "After all, if I hadn't been impeded then I would have been able to undo my fifty by paddling back upstream against the raging current that no other paddler had managed to achieve all day and get the gate I had missed, never mind the time it would have taken to achieve it". I think not.

Taking this yet another step further. Once a re-run has been awarded, how long after this should a paddler be allowed to take their re-run? Immediately or an hour and a half later? Should the paddler be allowed to recover from the run they have just completed, in fairness to them, or should they be forced to paddle immediately to the fairness of all the other competitiors? Should they be forced to paddle the same water as their competitors or wait until the water level has dropped making the course easier to manage?

If re-runs are to be awarded then I believe it should be following the lodging of a formal protest and the protest needs to be considered by at least three individuals, i.e. all jury members.

The re-run should be taken as soon as the jury has made its decision regardless of which class is currently on the water to limit any variability in water conditions.

I also believe that if a 50 second penalty has been awarded to the paddler prior to the incident that warrants a re-run then the paddler should not be given the benefit of the doubt, just in the same way that a half-head cannot be undone by doing the gate again.

Sorry if this has rambled on a bit but I feel very strongly about this issue following yesterday.

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:44 pm

Not having gone to the same depth of research as above, my understanding of the accepted practice here is that:

A protest is required
If someone is impeded by a natural obsticle than that is bad luck.
If a paddler catches another (providided they have not previously missed gates) then they should get a re-run if there is actual contact between the two boats.
If a paddler catches another but they have already got 50 sec penalties then they should give way to the other (this is covered by the ICF rules). Presumably re-run to the first paddler if there is contact.
I don't think there is any clarity for man made obsticles like a throw line (except that Nottingham and Cardington are completely manmade and we don't get re-runs for hitting bits of concrete)

Perhaps we need some perverse rule about taking the competitors existing penalties up to the point the re-run was adjudged necessary so that if a competitor collided with a ford escort that was attempting to cross the river at gate 15 and that competitor had already been given 54 penalties, then the rerun would only be scored from gate 15 down and those penalties would be added to the 54 already awarded.

The Ford Escort would not be entitled to a re-run.

chauffeur · Post by **chauffeur** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:51 pm

"I don't think there is any clarity for man made obsticles like a throw line (except that Nottingham and Cardington are completely manmade and we don't get re-runs for hitting bits of concrete)"

Hadn't though about that one!!

"Perhaps we need some perverse rule about taking the competitors existing penalties up to the point the re-run was adjudged necessary so that if a competitor collided with a ford escort that was attempting to cross the river at gate 15 and that competitor had already been given 54 penalties, then the rerun would only be scored from gate 15 down and those penalties would be added to the 54 already awarded"

I think all penalties previous to what ever the 'incident' should be kept. You can't say you were put off until the incident happens, fair enough any gates after the problem.

phatboy-lister · Post by **phatboy-lister** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:06 pm

re-runs should be allowed but under very strict conditions

Dutch Geezer · Post by **Dutch Geezer** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:48 pm

I think this comes under Rule 31.

31.3 If one competitor is hindered by another, they may repeat their run if so authorised by the Jury. The rule is clear only the Jury can authorise a rerun.

31.2 The overtaking competitor must be attempting to negotiate the course properly. if they have missed gates they must not impede the competitor they are approaching. If you have got a fifty you have no right to a rerun.

I wasn't there so I dont know what happened, but if this posting makes everyone more aware of the rules, then some good may come out of the event.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:31 pm

I wasn't at the event, but in general terms I think a little common sense should be applied.

At a Shepperton event this year one paddler was offered a re-run having been chased round the course by a swan!!

I don't think this specific eventuality was covered by the year book and I'm not sure how many 50s the swan got, but somehow the offer (not taken up) seemed common sense to me.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:13 am

I agree with Dutch Geezer, if they had picked up a 50 before they were impeded by another paddler and the other paddler had negotiated all the gates then tough luck you should not get a re-run, if you strayed off the "racing line" and found yourself tied up with a natural obsticle again hard luck.

The rule says quite plainly 31.3 If one competitor is hindered by another, they may repeat their run if so authorised by the Jury. There is no mention of any orher obsticles.

Re-runs always seem to create problems if they are not deemed fair to all concerned, how the jury interperate an event can be different from race to race.

quaker · Post by **quaker** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:43 am

I've always started a race with the understanding that if I got whistled off then I would have to make physical contact with the paddler overtaking me so that I could get a rerun (a "play" on rule 31.3). In all over conditions I realised that I would not get a re-run. Also I would deliberately hit a paddler I whistled off if I had hit lots of gates further up the course, because I would get a re-run.

All other re-runs that I have ever seen have been because of exceptional conditions. A re-run at the Stilling Basin when lighting caused the dam to turn off was one occasion that I recall.

However for any other outside obstacles I can not recall getting a re-run, for instance I remember on lad getting hit by a clay pigeon on the graveyard and he didn't get a re-run (he got a beautiful black eye though!).

I don't think that the rule lacks any clarity - you only get a rerun if you make contact with another paddler (or are impeded by another paddler) - and then it is upto the Jury.