Found this on the WWR site
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/9733009/index.html#
Whitewater course
-
66-1146487544
-
eauxvives.org
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:21 am
- Contact:
-
Canadian Paddler
- Posts: 1480
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:31 am
- Location: Peterborough
- Contact:
There's a challenge for the UK Olympic site. Looks to all be pumped, will we get similar for 2012? 
If so how much will it cost to run the pumps
If so how much will it cost to run the pumps
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points
-
66-1146487544
Dutch Water Dreams, the new pumped white water course near The Hague, are charging around £30 per person per hour if that is anything to go by!!!
Whereas the course at Charlotte in the US is only charging about £10 for a 1.5 hour session, which is much better value but a bit more than £9 per day at HPP!!!
Not looking good for these pumped courses.
Whereas the course at Charlotte in the US is only charging about £10 for a 1.5 hour session, which is much better value but a bit more than £9 per day at HPP!!!
Not looking good for these pumped courses.
Not sure why they have created a artificial course as their national whitewater centre. There are some superb rivers immediately around NC , within a radius of a few hours, nevermind the numerous others throughout the US.
The main ones being the Ocoee in TN and Chattooga (section 4) in NC. World class natural whitewater without any pumps in fantastic surroundings.
The main ones being the Ocoee in TN and Chattooga (section 4) in NC. World class natural whitewater without any pumps in fantastic surroundings.
Broxbourne is proposing to run 25 cumecs, lifting it through 3 metres of height. The electricity cost is fairly simple to predict - about 200 pounds per hour.
I assume it will be subsidised in order to keep it open until the Olympics. I don't see that happening for long afterwards. The only way I see to raise that sort of money will be intensive rafting.
Remember that is not the cost of running activities - it's the ADDITIONAL cost over and above places like HPP where the water is essentially free.
How many paddlers paying how much to raise the 1000 pounds needed for a three hour session?
I assume it will be subsidised in order to keep it open until the Olympics. I don't see that happening for long afterwards. The only way I see to raise that sort of money will be intensive rafting.
Remember that is not the cost of running activities - it's the ADDITIONAL cost over and above places like HPP where the water is essentially free.
How many paddlers paying how much to raise the 1000 pounds needed for a three hour session?
-
John Sturgess
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 12:01 am
- Location: Gedling, Nottingham/Long Preston, North Yorkshire
I don't think the Dutch course costs quite that much: the leaflet I was given in Prague quoted 28 euros an hour for elite paddlers - but it would only run if there were at least 20 paddlers on and paying that - so presumably 560 euros an hour minimum block booking charge (c. £380)
It was really sad going to Athens this year - architectural masterpiece, economic white elephant - acres of useless space to be maintained, + cost of pumping - when I spoke to the Greek Junior Coach at Krakow last year he said that the Greek Junior Team had never been able to afford to paddle on it.
The most successful economic model I know is Augsburg - although there is theoretically a small charge, nobody bothers to collect it most of the time. It is just a feature in a country park. But Bratislava, Troja, Liptovsky also seem to work pretty well. The difference is that they are designed to be low-cost rather than high-revenue.
When Nottinghamshire County Council put out their recent Consultation Paper on the future of HPP post-Sport England, all the options involved big capital spends in the hope of pulling in big revenues. I told them (in my official capacity as a Nottinghamshire District Sports Development Officer) that there needed to be an alternative - dynamite the hotel and all other high-running cost features, cut out all staffing except essential maintenance, and leave the courses as open-use features in a Country Park (which is what HPP as a whole is, if you didn't know).
It was really sad going to Athens this year - architectural masterpiece, economic white elephant - acres of useless space to be maintained, + cost of pumping - when I spoke to the Greek Junior Coach at Krakow last year he said that the Greek Junior Team had never been able to afford to paddle on it.
The most successful economic model I know is Augsburg - although there is theoretically a small charge, nobody bothers to collect it most of the time. It is just a feature in a country park. But Bratislava, Troja, Liptovsky also seem to work pretty well. The difference is that they are designed to be low-cost rather than high-revenue.
When Nottinghamshire County Council put out their recent Consultation Paper on the future of HPP post-Sport England, all the options involved big capital spends in the hope of pulling in big revenues. I told them (in my official capacity as a Nottinghamshire District Sports Development Officer) that there needed to be an alternative - dynamite the hotel and all other high-running cost features, cut out all staffing except essential maintenance, and leave the courses as open-use features in a Country Park (which is what HPP as a whole is, if you didn't know).
Where did you get the 25cumecs figure from? None of the pumped artificial sites are more than 20cumecs and I'm sure they realise that that kind of site would be unsustainable.
As for the dutch water dreams site, apparently to book out the site for an hour it will cost 650euro! The difference between this site and others though is that it is a completely private venture, so all they have in mind is making money. Most other sites are probably quite happy breaking even.
As for the dutch water dreams site, apparently to book out the site for an hour it will cost 650euro! The difference between this site and others though is that it is a completely private venture, so all they have in mind is making money. Most other sites are probably quite happy breaking even.
Richie wrote:Where did you get the 25cumecs figure from? None of the pumped artificial sites are more than 20cumecs and I'm sure they realise that that kind of site would be unsustainable.
The figure came from one of the organisations bidding to build it. The cost calculation is fairly simple - how many tons of water per second lifted through what height. This gives an energy figure that is within 20% of the actual use. Allow standard efficiency figures for motors and pumps, and you arrive at kilowatt-hours. Then you talk to electricity companies about their rates.
The end result isn't likely to vary more than plus or minus 25% from the calculated figure, in any given country. Different countries may have different electricity costs though, or different subsidies.