Selection 2007 - Did you know...?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:14 am

OK, having tried to ask everyone to play fair a seperate posting to allow me to express my own views, and reasons for indecision:

1) First question would be selection. . . is that Senior, Under 23, Junior . . or what. Will a good 18 year old, have to race Junior selection and Dutch? (or 22 year old)

2) If the proposal going forward is to have all selection races at DWD then I am against them on principle. This would restrict selection to a small number of people.

3) If the final selection is to be at DWD, as it was at Seo, I would be seeking guarantees of more water access for registered selection paddlers before the race. AND be concerned about the cost benefit.

4) There have been historical problems running selection races with ranking events, and special selection at HPP has not been a resounding success, perhaps we do need to think 'outside the box'

5) How is this different from (say) deciding to run selection at Cardiff (If it is open in time). Again restricted water access before, favouring the professionals, but would there be as much concern?

Generally I have a jaundiced view, but (thankfully) my selection days are 20 years ago now. :p

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:26 pm

Thanks for your support Colin - Personal attacks without knowing the full fact, or even bothering to find them out are very counterproductive!

It is no good publishing any proposals for the selection policy until the international Panel have met and discussed them and come to an agreement. There is as yet no draft policy ready for public scrutiny!

I will take to the International Panel the opinions of the Slalom Committee, this includes all paddlers who have their say via Etienne your representatives. If you have an opinion on the roumors please put them forward in a polite manner to either myself or Etienne.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:02 pm

Anne

Whilst I appreciate what you are trying to do, I see no reason to adopt the current pose, you have the draft proposals and as you state rumours are unhealthy and feed the uneducated rather than the objective decision. In terms of Committee accountability and responsibility I have found nothing in any articles of association that prevent you from logical discourse and discussion with the voting electorate that provided the mandate under which you currently operate.

Hence to reduce the personality issues, lets face it you have sufficient detractors looking to capitalise on that as it stands, why do you not at least outline the proposals under discussion. At least then you may get informed and logical responses with which to pursuade yourself or any other members of the International Panel on the best discourse.

From my understanding of pp31-32, once the policy is published by the IP it is only presented to the ACM. Subsequent changes will require the establishment of a consultative body of paddler and committee established representives to review and revert with amended policy for consideration by the IP all within 6 weeks of publication.

Please advisethe draft policy in outline, there is no reason to retain this in camera, at least if you get strong reaction to drat policies then you can provide the re-assurances prior to the ACM. Otherwise it may be back to the bad old days with selection policies in dispute right up to the selection time itself.

PS I have no personal interest in this as rather like CP it is a very long time since I was remotely considering selection on anything other than a TV remote!

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:45 pm

The draft selection policy will be published after the International Panel have met to discuss. This will hopefully be later this week, if I can organise time off work to get to nottingham. Possible proposals and suggestions do not make up a draft policy.

Dave Royle · Post by **Dave Royle** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:50 pm

So I guess the ACM will have the right to comment in due course and the details of the proposed selection policy will be issued in advance of the ACM.

The votes at the ACM belong to the Clubs, so if you are not in a club, I suggest you join one so that your voice can be heard.

Selection is always a subject of intense debate and emotion for obvious reasons, but paranoia is probably your worst enemy when it comes to racing.

Bus Driver · Post by **Bus Driver** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:31 pm

I feel that with my post of 29/09, I may have stirred up some aggrevation that we can all do without, if that is the case then I would like to take this opportunity to appologise.

Should the opinion of someone who is, these days, no more than an active supporter/helper of the sport, interest anyone, I stand by the main point of my earlier post: that is, that any policy that means that there is anything other than a "level playing field" for those wishing to attempt to make the team, should not even be seriously considered. My reason for this view is that it leaves the door open for damaging criticism to be leveled at both WC (1-2 members on the international committee) and also the exec (even though it would appear that regardless of whether they aggree or not, the decission may not be thiers) and also of course not forgeting the BCU. I, for one, do not want to see a time when the "management" (not just the exec you understand) of our sport are accussed of being corrupt and maybe a little biased toward certain paddlers.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:18 pm

Speaking from a non funded point of view, these rumours are very worrying and i am sure im not alone my concerns. We have full confidence in our paddler representative to whom we have expressed our views. I am sure at the end of the day the right decisions will be made to ensure selection is fair for all involved.

Train2Win · Post by **Train2Win** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:32 pm

You say that the international panel hasn't met yet, but the majority have - at the World Class meeting along with selected paddlers.

The main gripe is that World Class had a meeting where members of the international panel told a select group of WC paddlers of the liklihood of selection being at Dutch Water Dreams. As well as how it would be incorperated into their winter plans.

Considering that the proposals are't even published yet, this is completely out of order.

Anne, you say that rumours are unhealthy and counterproductive, but when members of the deciding panel are behaving like this, what on earth do you expect our reaction to be? How is it going to be a fair decision when a majority of the panel have informed their paddlers that it is likely that selection will be abroad and that trips etc. have been arranged around this.

Phil Stevo · Post by **Phil Stevo** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:02 pm

World Class Coaches and Managers are employed with one over-ridding aim, to produce medals at World Championships and more importantly at the Olympics. So I would expect them to make all their decisions in line with this aim, as the whole sport shares in the pride of achievement when our athletes get on the podium at these events.

Also it is the IP's job to come up with proposals for the structure of Selection and we can assume from the information shared on this thread that the Dutch proposal is on the table for discussion for the reasons stated above.

However, I think there is something more important to think about here and that is the overall integrity of the sport. Selection races must not only be organised in a way that is fair to all those in with a shout, they must definately be seen to be fair.

Also, the only way now to get onto a World Class Programme is through GB Selection and then onto results at international races. This means that if extra barriers are placed in front of non-programme paddlers at Selection it effectively closes the route to a programme for late developing/growth spurt athletes.

One of the worst thing we could do for our sport is to hack off that body of very good non-funded paddlers that keep the standard of national competition high.

quaker · Post by **quaker** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:06 pm

Phil Stevo wrote:"World Class Coaches and Managers are employed with one over-ridding aim, to produce medals at World Championships and more importantly at the Olympics."

If only they could!

campbell · Post by **campbell** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:38 am

Personally, I dont really care where selection races are held as I believe the best paddlers will make the team regardless of venue or training time on that venue. Generally, the fast paddlers are fast everywhere. Just look at the Prem race results this year - on average it is the same paddlers at the top of every race (when the senior team are racing). And selection is similarly an average over 3 races.

But I do agree that it is not particular healthy for our sport to be holding races in a foreign country where water time is so expensive, as it does favour the full-time funded athletes, making it harder for others to breakthrough.

But I do not understand all the negativity towards the World Class program.

In reply to Quaker.... World Class DO produce medals (I can show you some of mine sometime if you want - I have a very nice collection of World Cup, World Championship and Olympic medals!). And how do you think David Florence and Fiona Pennie have got so good recently?

Without UK Sport funding and the work of the World Class coaches and support staff I would never have won any of those medals. Every major nation in the sport has a similar funding program. If we didn't, then we would not have a chance competing internationally.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:35 pm

Well siad Campbell! I totally agree with you. Keep up the good work.

quaker · Post by **quaker** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:48 pm

From my understanding of this whole argument the hostility and negative feelings towards the WC management team is that everyone is uncertain to their role and input back into the UK competitive environment. The thread started because it was rumoured that WC were going to direct the selection races to a course where present WC paddlers would have a competitive advantage.

The majority of the feelings appear to be because there is little information coming direct from the WC MT and any information in circulation is either rumour or taken out of context. The WC MT are hardly helping themselves and appear to be leaving all the fire fighting to Anne, who is really acting as a go between for our interests and theirs.

Finally, without being bitchy... I know we have produced some silver and bronze medals (the odd gold as well) but we as a nation shouldn't stop until all boats in all competitions produce all the medals available... in other words until we dominate.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:52 am

End result - selection at HPP in April and May. No DWD this year.

So selection will be seen to be fair (well, as fair as any site, it is harder for a Cornwall Slalom paddler to proctice at HPP than a Notingham one, but thats a whole different ball game.)

surveyme · Post by **surveyme** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:35 am

campbell wrote:Personally, I dont really care where selection races are held as I believe the best paddlers will make the team regardless of venue or training time on that venue. Generally, the fast paddlers are fast everywhere. Just look at the Prem race results this year - on average it is the same paddlers at the top of every race (when the senior team are racing). And selection is similarly an average over 3 races.

But I do agree that it is not particular healthy for our sport to be holding races in a foreign country where water time is so expensive, as it does favour the full-time funded athletes, making it harder for others to breakthrough.

But I do not understand all the negativity towards the World Class program.

In reply to Quaker.... World Class DO produce medals (I can show you some of mine sometime if you want - I have a very nice collection of World Cup, World Championship and Olympic medals!). And how do you think David Florence and Fiona Pennie have got so good recently?

Without UK Sport funding and the work of the World Class coaches and support staff I would never have won any of those medals. Every major nation in the sport has a similar funding program. If we didn't, then we would not have a chance competing internationally.

Dear Cambell

I'm sure you're a very nice chap and all that - but what an egotistical and arrogant comment you make. Not a good example to the younger paddlers at all. Surely the route to future glory is to find ways of encouraging and supporting them - not just saying it worked for you (at present, it seems it only works for the three )or not many more) of you that you quoted!).

It is wholly wrong for any committee member to divulge any "draft or incomplete policy" details outside of their committee. They should now have the decency to resign or the Chairman should publicly reprimand them (if not remove them from the committee). What is known by some MUST be known by all - how else can the system be fair?

As regardless personal attacks, this is not helpful. However strong leadership and communication would help these to disappear.