Is it not time we moved into the 21st century with communication at slalom events rather than using a system that was basically invented in the First World War?
It seems that the main cause of delays at events is due to the breakdown of this antiquated system, there are wireless systems and even better cable systems on the market that could replace this at not a great deal of cost. I am sure funding could be found for this as it is a national problem for event organisers?
Thought's??
Tutti
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
-
Dave Royle
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 11:02 pm
I think the reluctance to replace the TUTTI system is two fold.
1 - Money needs to be more urgently spent on replacing the equally antiquated BBC timing system. It's unbelievable that we are still operating a system based on computers this old. Beams and timing are also responsible for a large number of delays.
2 - TUTTI was built out of simple components which are in fact pretty reliable and, even better, maintainable. If we were to switch technology we would be into the disposable age and when a headset broke down its only destiny would be the bin. Wireless systems, in particular, have a high maintenance overhead as the batteries have to be charged. This can work where there is a single owner but, where the system is passed from one race top another, we all know that they would never be charged when needed. Sound quality and range for a wireless system are also a problem.
I agree TUTTI old and does cause some delays. But I think it is perhaps more robust than you think.
Judges and Officials being late is also a major reason for delays.
1 - Money needs to be more urgently spent on replacing the equally antiquated BBC timing system. It's unbelievable that we are still operating a system based on computers this old. Beams and timing are also responsible for a large number of delays.
2 - TUTTI was built out of simple components which are in fact pretty reliable and, even better, maintainable. If we were to switch technology we would be into the disposable age and when a headset broke down its only destiny would be the bin. Wireless systems, in particular, have a high maintenance overhead as the batteries have to be charged. This can work where there is a single owner but, where the system is passed from one race top another, we all know that they would never be charged when needed. Sound quality and range for a wireless system are also a problem.
I agree TUTTI old and does cause some delays. But I think it is perhaps more robust than you think.
Judges and Officials being late is also a major reason for delays.
-
66-1146487544
... as are paddlers being on the start line on time.
To be fair though, the delay's experienced on Saturday at Matlock were not related to the age of the tutti equipment. They were down to the problems of broadcasting messages to the public when running a slalom event down the side of a very busy road. The gate judges were not in place to start the race on time because the organisers had to call on late entries to judge but couldn't then get a message out to all the late entries to inform them of this fact. Hence the half hour delay whilst judges were located. The replacement of tutti wouldn't have solved that problem but a more extensive PA system might have done.
Where do you start with investment in our sport? Everything runs on a song and a prayer because of the limited investment over several years now but I doubt paddlers would be too impressed with a major increase in entry prices to pay for the updates needed. I wish I had the answer to this problem but at the moment I can't see where the finance will come from to pay for all the investments needed at the grass roots level.
To be fair though, the delay's experienced on Saturday at Matlock were not related to the age of the tutti equipment. They were down to the problems of broadcasting messages to the public when running a slalom event down the side of a very busy road. The gate judges were not in place to start the race on time because the organisers had to call on late entries to judge but couldn't then get a message out to all the late entries to inform them of this fact. Hence the half hour delay whilst judges were located. The replacement of tutti wouldn't have solved that problem but a more extensive PA system might have done.
Where do you start with investment in our sport? Everything runs on a song and a prayer because of the limited investment over several years now but I doubt paddlers would be too impressed with a major increase in entry prices to pay for the updates needed. I wish I had the answer to this problem but at the moment I can't see where the finance will come from to pay for all the investments needed at the grass roots level.
Tutti's great strength is its simplicity. Although problems do happen, it is fairly easy even for a non technical person to do the problem solving necessary. Moving to a more complex system will make setting up and problem solving harder.
I don't know exactly what the problem was at Matlock, but it wasn't that the judges weren't in place. I was sat at position A, and we had the usual sight of people running backwards and forwards with spare headsets while they got to the root of the problem. It may have been the equipment that was at fault, but it is difficult to think of a system that will be more robust, especially given the environment it has to work in.
They weren't using beams at Matlock, thankfully. Beam starts are unnecessary, especially at the lower divisions. I think it was Tony Arrowsmith who did a report a few years ago where he compared beam starts to the photographic method used for athletic races, and found that it could be up to half a second out. Beam starts give a false impression of accuracy, while adding a huge potential for failure - a simple push button start/finish is probably equally accurate, with much less potential for failure.
I don't know exactly what the problem was at Matlock, but it wasn't that the judges weren't in place. I was sat at position A, and we had the usual sight of people running backwards and forwards with spare headsets while they got to the root of the problem. It may have been the equipment that was at fault, but it is difficult to think of a system that will be more robust, especially given the environment it has to work in.
They weren't using beams at Matlock, thankfully. Beam starts are unnecessary, especially at the lower divisions. I think it was Tony Arrowsmith who did a report a few years ago where he compared beam starts to the photographic method used for athletic races, and found that it could be up to half a second out. Beam starts give a false impression of accuracy, while adding a huge potential for failure - a simple push button start/finish is probably equally accurate, with much less potential for failure.
TUTTIE
It was back in 2003 when the then Slalom Committee was made aware by clubs and organisers, in no uncertain terms, just how out of date the TUTTIE system was.
Up till then there had never been any plans for the update of this antiquated system, a system used by successive committees for the development of the sport and well past its sell-by date.
By the year 2003 the Slalom Committee finances had been turned round, thanks to stringent measures adopted by myself and a number of fellow Committee Members. A fund for the replacement of the TUTTI system was proposed and with the wholehearted backing of the Home Nations was endorsed by the Committee. The sum of £3,000 was set aside in 2003 and it was agreed that a similar sum would be added each year. The then Technical Support Coordinator, who is still in office today, was to research replacement systems and the availability of funding. This was available then and I understand is available today.
The fund should stand at £12,000 today and with or without any matched funding it should be sufficient to fund the replacement it was set up for. Had the outside funding for marketing and publicity for Divisions 3 & 4 which was available last year, been allowed to continue, matched funding for the TUTTI replacement may well have been forthcoming, thus releasing some of the £12,000 which could then have been used towards the replacement of the BBC computers. Alas, the outside marketing and publicity work was rejected both by the Slalom Committee and by the Chief Executive of the BCU who considered it to be undermining the Committees work.
The present Committee appears to believe that the clubs should look after and support the lower divisions themselves and that its own emphasis should be on Premier/Division 1, International events and GB Teams. The question is what happens to the money earmarked for TUTTI replacement? Is it to be used for its intended purpose? Is it to be spent on the replacement of the BBC system? The Clubs deserve answers to these questions.
Keith J Goddard
It was back in 2003 when the then Slalom Committee was made aware by clubs and organisers, in no uncertain terms, just how out of date the TUTTIE system was.
Up till then there had never been any plans for the update of this antiquated system, a system used by successive committees for the development of the sport and well past its sell-by date.
By the year 2003 the Slalom Committee finances had been turned round, thanks to stringent measures adopted by myself and a number of fellow Committee Members. A fund for the replacement of the TUTTI system was proposed and with the wholehearted backing of the Home Nations was endorsed by the Committee. The sum of £3,000 was set aside in 2003 and it was agreed that a similar sum would be added each year. The then Technical Support Coordinator, who is still in office today, was to research replacement systems and the availability of funding. This was available then and I understand is available today.
The fund should stand at £12,000 today and with or without any matched funding it should be sufficient to fund the replacement it was set up for. Had the outside funding for marketing and publicity for Divisions 3 & 4 which was available last year, been allowed to continue, matched funding for the TUTTI replacement may well have been forthcoming, thus releasing some of the £12,000 which could then have been used towards the replacement of the BBC computers. Alas, the outside marketing and publicity work was rejected both by the Slalom Committee and by the Chief Executive of the BCU who considered it to be undermining the Committees work.
The present Committee appears to believe that the clubs should look after and support the lower divisions themselves and that its own emphasis should be on Premier/Division 1, International events and GB Teams. The question is what happens to the money earmarked for TUTTI replacement? Is it to be used for its intended purpose? Is it to be spent on the replacement of the BBC system? The Clubs deserve answers to these questions.
Keith J Goddard
Dave Royle wrote:I think the reluctance to replace the TUTTI system is two fold.
1 - Money needs to be more urgently spent on replacing the equally antiquated BBC timing system. It's unbelievable that we are still operating a system based on computers this old. Beams and timing are also responsible for a large number of delays. This system cost nothing in the first place as it was old school computers that were going to be skipped! Laptops are now sub £400.00 so we are not talking a fortune to upgrade
2 - TUTTI was built out of simple components which WERE are in fact pretty reliable and, even better, maintainable. If we were to switch technology we would be into the disposable age and when a headset broke down its only destiny would be the bin. Wireless systems, in particular, have a high maintenance overhead as the batteries have to be charged So does the Tuttie?. This can work where there is a single owner but, where the system is passed from one race top another, we all know that they would never be charged when needed So does the Tuttie?. Sound quality and range for a wireless system are also a problem. Sound quality and range is not a problem with wireless technology, it is used at nearly every other sporting event, I don't see a slalom course being over 120 miles long, which is the range of a good radio system
I agree TUTTI old and does cause some delays. But I think it is perhaps more robust than you think.
Judges and Officials being late is also a major reason for delays. This is very true, for instance, you can not expect to hold a judges meeting 15 minutes before the start and expect everyone to get in place and ready in time especially at some of the courses
Just a few comments on Dave R's post and Dave B seem's to echo what we all saw (this is not as some people seem to have latched on to a problem with the Matlock event which was very well organised, but it happens to event's generally throughout the season). The problem is it is a two wire system which is simple but prown to fault due to the age of the equipment, cables become brittle after time especially as they are constantly being bent, you could upgrade the current system by running multicore cables instead of the two wire between headsets, but this would increase the bulk and weight of the equipment to lug around between events. A radio system would all fit into one flight case making it easier to transport and quick to set up.
If people want to stay with a wired system, talk to Sonic Communications they specialise in this type of thing they also supply wireless systems that would be ideal for the job, especially if as Keith says there are funds available for this?
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
Good information, I'm sure not many people were aware of this money being available.
Perhaps someone from the committee could expand on Tutti replacement schedules within their long and short term objectives and targets where this must of been one of the targets for 2006-07 and what has been done to address the problems since 2003?
Why! Why! Why! - was division 3/4 funding' for marketing & publicity rejected by this slalom commitee/BCU at a time when this discipline needs all the financial help that is available?
Perhaps someone from the committee could expand on Tutti replacement schedules within their long and short term objectives and targets where this must of been one of the targets for 2006-07 and what has been done to address the problems since 2003?
Why! Why! Why! - was division 3/4 funding' for marketing & publicity rejected by this slalom commitee/BCU at a time when this discipline needs all the financial help that is available?
Please see the minutes of the slalom committee meeting held on 24th March when the are published - this will give you a full update on timing in slalom. We hope to start publishing them on the BCU slalom page and on this site.
Please do not believe everying said on this site - much of it not entirely accurate, no funding for publicity for 3/4 events was ever put on the table!
The Slalom Committee are somewhat reticent at posting on this site following some personal abuse last year.
Hope this helps, remember we are a sport running on a very tight budget, by dedicated volunteers who also have full time jobs but neverthe less try very hard and put hours and hours of their own time into ensuring it all happens for you, the competitiors!
If anyone wants any questions answered please e-mail me personally, not ask via this site, on: anne.hounslow@btinternet.com and I will be happy to reply.
Enjoy your slaom canoeing
Anne Hounslow, chair Slalom Committee
Please do not believe everying said on this site - much of it not entirely accurate, no funding for publicity for 3/4 events was ever put on the table!
The Slalom Committee are somewhat reticent at posting on this site following some personal abuse last year.
Hope this helps, remember we are a sport running on a very tight budget, by dedicated volunteers who also have full time jobs but neverthe less try very hard and put hours and hours of their own time into ensuring it all happens for you, the competitiors!
If anyone wants any questions answered please e-mail me personally, not ask via this site, on: anne.hounslow@btinternet.com and I will be happy to reply.
Enjoy your slaom canoeing
Anne Hounslow, chair Slalom Committee