I have a canoe helmet on e bay for sale starting from £5 and its a ace 5000 White water helmet in Blue for any one like
Canoe Helmets - Buy on line £30
I agree! as I said in an earlier post it is at least as good as my (CE marked) Protec. But that is only my opinion based on a quick look at it, there is no proof to back up my opinion. How should we decide whether a helmet is suitable for whitewater or not?phatboy-lister wrote:graeme the camp star kid helmets are a decent product
One solution is to farm it problem to an outside body, with the technical skills to be able to perform the necesary tests, but that throws up another problem. What tests should they perform? So we farm this out to another body, who discuss the requirements and come up with some tests that (hopefully) ensure that helmets passing the tests will perform their task of protecting the wearer adequately.
Another solution is to set phatboy-lister up as our expert, and he should personally check all paddler's helmets before they are allowed to compete. Or maybe phatboy-lister knows someone with the necesary skills who he could delegate this task too?
Before the rule about CE helmets was introduced, paddlers were using blatantly unsafe helmets with very large holes, and about 1mm of foam between the shell and the wearer's head. Without the rule, nothing could be done about it. It is a good rule, lets stick by it.
Cheers Jim
For those of you who do not have a copy of the 2002 yearbook, it states that helmets should comply with CE standard BSEN 1385-1998 (which has now been replaced by CEN 1385).
If anyone want's to approve the Camp helmet for watersports for themselves, I think that you will find the cost prohibative!
For those of you who do not have a copy of the 2002 yearbook, it states that helmets should comply with CE standard BSEN 1385-1998 (which has now been replaced by CEN 1385).
If anyone want's to approve the Camp helmet for watersports for themselves, I think that you will find the cost prohibative!
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
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Seedy Paddler
- Posts: 440
- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 2:00 pm
However if enough contact the maufactureer and ask if he can put the helmet forward for type approval by a CEN Authority then it could become economically attractive.
(From memory)The specific CEN number was dropped because they revised the whole thing as all such items are covered under PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) regulations and they quickly realised that what was good for firefighters but not be as effective for potholers etc etc. There was an issue at one stage that we did not have the new reference numbers and rather than misquote it was felt appropriate to state CE approved. As by law for an item to be sold or supplied for use in canoesport it must meet the appropriate standard (i.e. CEN1385).
Hence as an individual you may paddle with an old sock for a crash helmet, however you may not provide an old sock to anyone that you have aduty of care over. This includes minors and indeed anyone that has a lesser understanding of the risks than you. So for Clubs, centres and organised events then it is right and reasonable to require adherence to this standard. The fact that the rule is not particulalry well policed is irrelevent - the comments above are rather like stating that because underage drinking is rife we should abandon all licencing laws!.
Similalrly I could point out that I paddled for nigh on 20 years with an ACE helmet and never saw someone get their head caved in wearing an Ace helmet. I am aware that some did, I am also aware of similar injuries whilst wearing so called "BCU approved" helmets. However I do have the test papers and results so would not suggest a return to the Ace style but rather the current situation whereby equipment is tested objectively under independent conditions and not approved subjectively through financial endorsements.
The Camp Star Kid is not CEN approved for use on watersports, they are by design targeted at "minors". Hence anyone who encourages or allows a minor to paddle in a Camp Star Kid could be found negligent and hence culpable for any injury or suffering..
Sorry leave them by the climbing wall!
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66-1146487544
Not easily, but yes I can do it, it will take me a few days as we are really busy at the moment but I will do it and email it over to Nick to put on the site.
Quick business plug whilst we are here, if anyone is looking for a Shred Ready or Sweet helmet (CEN 1385 approved) we are offering 15% discount on our on-line website Fear Gear to BCU members, enter discount code BCU07 at the checkout, there is also BA's, cag's, paddles, thermals and other paddling and outdoor equipment available. We also have some great sale offers on top outdoor clothing up to 50% off certain products. (plug over)
Quick business plug whilst we are here, if anyone is looking for a Shred Ready or Sweet helmet (CEN 1385 approved) we are offering 15% discount on our on-line website Fear Gear to BCU members, enter discount code BCU07 at the checkout, there is also BA's, cag's, paddles, thermals and other paddling and outdoor equipment available. We also have some great sale offers on top outdoor clothing up to 50% off certain products. (plug over)
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
Good to know others are thinking about this too. For this coming season I have been told that all helmets must be CE watersports approved. I am currently wearing the Camp helmet and must change.
In the last couple of years some of us, have chosen the Camp helmet mentioned above, which is CE climbing approved. Not Watersports approved. Simple beacuse its light and close fitting (small).
I have been looking to find out and make a list of all approved helmets beacuse I want to find the best one for slalom.... All CE approved Helmets are saft but lets be honest, they are massive. Slalom paddlers need a safe small close fitting helmet and preferably somthing that looks good!!!! Bassicly leaving the Wild Water helmet the only option.
International paddlers at World Cup and World Championships have to follow different guide lines than us in the UK, which dose raise issues for some GB Team paddlers and why you have seen so many wearing the Camp Helmets or compersit helmets of the past. The classic Ace helmet is still legal for a World Champs as are many compersit helmets (as long as they have suitable paddling and secure straps), but neither for a UK races. Alot of paddlers like the Wild Water style, personally I keep hitting poles if I wear one. So I am keen to find other options.
If you are taking short lines, close to the poles then to be competitive you need skin tight lycra style top, small as possible B.A. (thats legal) and the smallest, lightest as possible helmet (thats legal). Not so necessary for a div 3 paddler, but I can see how that person would want to be wearing the same kit and copy GB team Members.
I think the best helmet I have found for this upcoming season that is CE watersports approved is from SHRED READY. www.shredready.com. Its called the Shensu. And its compersit!!!!
I want to wear the saftest helmet, but I do want to wear the smallest lightest legal helmet I can find. Appart from Wild Water and the above mentioned Shensu, what other helmets are there!!!
Also, would it just be simpler to follow the international World Champsionship standard?
In the last couple of years some of us, have chosen the Camp helmet mentioned above, which is CE climbing approved. Not Watersports approved. Simple beacuse its light and close fitting (small).
I have been looking to find out and make a list of all approved helmets beacuse I want to find the best one for slalom.... All CE approved Helmets are saft but lets be honest, they are massive. Slalom paddlers need a safe small close fitting helmet and preferably somthing that looks good!!!! Bassicly leaving the Wild Water helmet the only option.
International paddlers at World Cup and World Championships have to follow different guide lines than us in the UK, which dose raise issues for some GB Team paddlers and why you have seen so many wearing the Camp Helmets or compersit helmets of the past. The classic Ace helmet is still legal for a World Champs as are many compersit helmets (as long as they have suitable paddling and secure straps), but neither for a UK races. Alot of paddlers like the Wild Water style, personally I keep hitting poles if I wear one. So I am keen to find other options.
If you are taking short lines, close to the poles then to be competitive you need skin tight lycra style top, small as possible B.A. (thats legal) and the smallest, lightest as possible helmet (thats legal). Not so necessary for a div 3 paddler, but I can see how that person would want to be wearing the same kit and copy GB team Members.
I think the best helmet I have found for this upcoming season that is CE watersports approved is from SHRED READY. www.shredready.com. Its called the Shensu. And its compersit!!!!
I want to wear the saftest helmet, but I do want to wear the smallest lightest legal helmet I can find. Appart from Wild Water and the above mentioned Shensu, what other helmets are there!!!
Also, would it just be simpler to follow the international World Champsionship standard?
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Slow_n_dirty
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:46 pm
- Location: Winchester
What is the real difference between a climbing helmet and a watersports helmet. Both are designed to stop you hitting rocks, surely they are both going to be ok.
More to the point has there actually been any reported cases of someone being injured at a race because of helmet failure, I bet there has been a big fat ZERO.
This is the nanny state gone made again. FFS as long as they have a helmet that is properly fitted (a bigger issue if you ask me) and done up. Can't they leave us alone to wear what we want. Home made, ACE or Cooper me up!!!!
This is not about safety of the paddler but all about, covering against legal protection. Leave it to the paddler to decide if it is safe or not, it will be our own fault if we get injured!
More to the point has there actually been any reported cases of someone being injured at a race because of helmet failure, I bet there has been a big fat ZERO.
This is the nanny state gone made again. FFS as long as they have a helmet that is properly fitted (a bigger issue if you ask me) and done up. Can't they leave us alone to wear what we want. Home made, ACE or Cooper me up!!!!
This is not about safety of the paddler but all about, covering against legal protection. Leave it to the paddler to decide if it is safe or not, it will be our own fault if we get injured!
No there's not a lot of difference between a climbing helmet and a watersports one (although I wouldn't want to wear my climbing helmet on the water), but that's not the point of the change. The change is to clarify the rule that the CE mark must be a watersports one. After all my bike helmet has a CE mark on but you wouldn't want to do slalom in that.
What you say is of course right Stu, bigger helmets and BAs make hitting poles more likely, and as you say you wear the smallest legal BA. The clarification is though that wearing a childrens (!) climbing helmet isn't legal. I take your point about international rules, and realise you're one of the people who are going to want to train for international competition more than domestically, hence perhaps hit a few more poles with your head in the UK and get frustrated - I sympathise with that. I suspect it won't be long before ICF bring in similar rules though. What happens for international races held in the UK? How long before UK insurers insist on it - see Tour de France for details. Yes it probably is a legal cover thing, and yes badly fitting/adjusted helmets are a big(ger?) issue, but if you're going to have a rule that helmets must be worn, it is sensible to specify what sort of helmet. As soon as you specify rules about the sort of helmet, inivetably some helmets that are fit for purpose don't make the criteria (not making any judgement in the case of the CAMP helmet - of course I don't have the knowledge to say whether it is fit for purpose or not, and I suspect nor does anyone with an opinion on here).
Those of us who go with the spirit of the rule and have watersports CE approved helmets are giving away time to those willing to shortcut the rules and use children's climbing helmets. It's akin to wearing a BA without enough bouyancy in - probably does the job but isn't inside the rules.
What you say is of course right Stu, bigger helmets and BAs make hitting poles more likely, and as you say you wear the smallest legal BA. The clarification is though that wearing a childrens (!) climbing helmet isn't legal. I take your point about international rules, and realise you're one of the people who are going to want to train for international competition more than domestically, hence perhaps hit a few more poles with your head in the UK and get frustrated - I sympathise with that. I suspect it won't be long before ICF bring in similar rules though. What happens for international races held in the UK? How long before UK insurers insist on it - see Tour de France for details. Yes it probably is a legal cover thing, and yes badly fitting/adjusted helmets are a big(ger?) issue, but if you're going to have a rule that helmets must be worn, it is sensible to specify what sort of helmet. As soon as you specify rules about the sort of helmet, inivetably some helmets that are fit for purpose don't make the criteria (not making any judgement in the case of the CAMP helmet - of course I don't have the knowledge to say whether it is fit for purpose or not, and I suspect nor does anyone with an opinion on here).
Those of us who go with the spirit of the rule and have watersports CE approved helmets are giving away time to those willing to shortcut the rules and use children's climbing helmets. It's akin to wearing a BA without enough bouyancy in - probably does the job but isn't inside the rules.
C1stu wrote:I think the best helmet I have found for this upcoming season that is CE watersports approved is from SHRED READY. www.shredready.com. Its called the Shensu. And its compersit!!!!
Sorry Stu but the Shensu is not yet CE approved, if we had about 250 orders for this helmet we would consider putting it through CE approval. The price of this helmet in the UK would be £99.95.
Cheers
Graeme
Paddle fast,,,Paddle safe Yorkshire Canoe Coaching
I recieved this email from Shred Ready lasy week.
Hey Stuart,
The Shensu will pass the CE test for sure. All of our helmets are designed to exceed to the CE test.
I'm pretty sure we could have it certified by April 1 but let me talk to the testing lab first to make sure.
Patrick Chambers
US Operations Manager
Shred Ready, Inc.
334-239-0179 Direct
334-239-4240 Fax
patrick@shredready.com
www.shredready.com
Saftey is most important and for most of us top paddlers its a consistent level playing field between athletes that we are seaking. I dont mind wearing a large helmet if everyone else in the UK is.... But I will switch, if I can, to wear the minimum of what is legally required when it comes to the World Champs, becasue I want to win. The Shensu helmet seems to me to be the best option for both the UK and Internationally...that I can find and that will send a consistent message to other UK paddlers.
From speaking to paddlers testing the helmet from the US team, (but not actually seeing one myself yet) it is the smallest/closest fitting helmet available for slalom paddlers. And as long as by the start of season it is approved, I will be wearing one. I have already spoken to a number of other paddlers that are also very interested in using it, once it has been CE Watersports approved!!!!! As long as people know it will be available, I am sure people will buy it..
If it dosen't get approved it looks like the Wild Water helmet is the only option as the others are just too big. Are we sure that between us we cant find any other helmet options!!!!!
Hey Stuart,
The Shensu will pass the CE test for sure. All of our helmets are designed to exceed to the CE test.
I'm pretty sure we could have it certified by April 1 but let me talk to the testing lab first to make sure.
Patrick Chambers
US Operations Manager
Shred Ready, Inc.
334-239-0179 Direct
334-239-4240 Fax
patrick@shredready.com
www.shredready.com
Saftey is most important and for most of us top paddlers its a consistent level playing field between athletes that we are seaking. I dont mind wearing a large helmet if everyone else in the UK is.... But I will switch, if I can, to wear the minimum of what is legally required when it comes to the World Champs, becasue I want to win. The Shensu helmet seems to me to be the best option for both the UK and Internationally...that I can find and that will send a consistent message to other UK paddlers.
From speaking to paddlers testing the helmet from the US team, (but not actually seeing one myself yet) it is the smallest/closest fitting helmet available for slalom paddlers. And as long as by the start of season it is approved, I will be wearing one. I have already spoken to a number of other paddlers that are also very interested in using it, once it has been CE Watersports approved!!!!! As long as people know it will be available, I am sure people will buy it..
If it dosen't get approved it looks like the Wild Water helmet is the only option as the others are just too big. Are we sure that between us we cant find any other helmet options!!!!!
I just recieved this and was asked to post it.
Hi everyone in UK slalom land. Tom Sherburne here owner of Shred Ready. I used to paddle slalom in the 80's up to about 96. Although never on the US team i progressed pretty high. I guess what would be equivalent to div. 1 in UK but not premier level. Thought I would chim in a bit on this topic. Since helmets are what we do and slalom is what i used to do alot.
Giving a bit of perspective on the new helmet the Shensu
The Shensu, which mean "amazingly fast" in Chinese, is our helmet that we developed for input from the US team for Beijing. We developed and are in development of it until 2008. We have had prototypes out and about for about 8 months now, and we are offering to general public but in a bit different set up then what we would do for the slalom folks.
The US guys wanted something similar to the Broncalli helmet and we knew camp made this helmet as a kids climbing helmet. I bought one and looked it over and by my standards was just a bit to thin and to minimalist to fit and provide adequate protection for most people. To fit an large adult head this helmet would not pass any standard because most of the protective foam would have to be removed. It doesn’t fit my head at all.
So we added our own design flaire, to rear of helmet, added about 8 mm of volume and did our magic.
For slalom, this helmet is be vented, with 7 vents about 1/4 inch in width and about 2 inches in length. sorry don't have helmet in front of me to be precise.
four vents up front (horizontal, three in back (two horizontal one vertical).
The liner will be made of an EPP foam which is a breathable. the cells of the foam are held together by an elastomer and there are small gaps between the beads (cells) that allow for porosity and also for heat to escape. good for slalom guys since you train so much and getting hot sucks, unless it is winter. This type of epp and it construction also allow for improved energy management in case of impact. and of course it is really light weight.
The shell for slalom version is 4 layers of carbon fiber, actually 8 pieces taht over lap in the middle in alternating directions. sort of an I beam construction if you will. Anyway, make a strong shell.
for slalom folks we will not be adding any edge trim, or the HOG unless you want it. Both of these items add weight and are not necessary for slalom in my opinion. Especially the edge trim.
While the testing for the CE is just starting, I don't foresee any huge problems as this is pretty much the same construction we use on several of the other models we have that are already have already passed CE 1385. The only new thing is the vents on a composite helmet, but we have other helmets plastic with vents that pass no problem.
I just finished one for a former UK champ’s paddlers son, Peter Mitchell, today. The shell came in at 240 grams. after assembly it should weight about 300 grams with straps buckles and liner. I will try and post pictures tomorrow or send C1Stu a pics.
Time line for your trials? Not sure. A lot depends on lab tech guys in England. but once the testing has been done and it has passed we can sell to stores, though our distributor System X. We are proceeding as we speak.
Best Regards
Tom Sherburne
Shred Ready
tom@shredready.com
Tom Sherburne
334-239-1079 customer service
334-239-4240 (fax)
256-639-4175 (direct)
http://expedicionechile.blogspot.com/
www.shredready.com
Hi everyone in UK slalom land. Tom Sherburne here owner of Shred Ready. I used to paddle slalom in the 80's up to about 96. Although never on the US team i progressed pretty high. I guess what would be equivalent to div. 1 in UK but not premier level. Thought I would chim in a bit on this topic. Since helmets are what we do and slalom is what i used to do alot.
Giving a bit of perspective on the new helmet the Shensu
The Shensu, which mean "amazingly fast" in Chinese, is our helmet that we developed for input from the US team for Beijing. We developed and are in development of it until 2008. We have had prototypes out and about for about 8 months now, and we are offering to general public but in a bit different set up then what we would do for the slalom folks.
The US guys wanted something similar to the Broncalli helmet and we knew camp made this helmet as a kids climbing helmet. I bought one and looked it over and by my standards was just a bit to thin and to minimalist to fit and provide adequate protection for most people. To fit an large adult head this helmet would not pass any standard because most of the protective foam would have to be removed. It doesn’t fit my head at all.
So we added our own design flaire, to rear of helmet, added about 8 mm of volume and did our magic.
For slalom, this helmet is be vented, with 7 vents about 1/4 inch in width and about 2 inches in length. sorry don't have helmet in front of me to be precise.
four vents up front (horizontal, three in back (two horizontal one vertical).
The liner will be made of an EPP foam which is a breathable. the cells of the foam are held together by an elastomer and there are small gaps between the beads (cells) that allow for porosity and also for heat to escape. good for slalom guys since you train so much and getting hot sucks, unless it is winter. This type of epp and it construction also allow for improved energy management in case of impact. and of course it is really light weight.
The shell for slalom version is 4 layers of carbon fiber, actually 8 pieces taht over lap in the middle in alternating directions. sort of an I beam construction if you will. Anyway, make a strong shell.
for slalom folks we will not be adding any edge trim, or the HOG unless you want it. Both of these items add weight and are not necessary for slalom in my opinion. Especially the edge trim.
While the testing for the CE is just starting, I don't foresee any huge problems as this is pretty much the same construction we use on several of the other models we have that are already have already passed CE 1385. The only new thing is the vents on a composite helmet, but we have other helmets plastic with vents that pass no problem.
I just finished one for a former UK champ’s paddlers son, Peter Mitchell, today. The shell came in at 240 grams. after assembly it should weight about 300 grams with straps buckles and liner. I will try and post pictures tomorrow or send C1Stu a pics.
Time line for your trials? Not sure. A lot depends on lab tech guys in England. but once the testing has been done and it has passed we can sell to stores, though our distributor System X. We are proceeding as we speak.
Best Regards
Tom Sherburne
Shred Ready
tom@shredready.com
Tom Sherburne
334-239-1079 customer service
334-239-4240 (fax)
256-639-4175 (direct)
http://expedicionechile.blogspot.com/
www.shredready.com
Response from CAMP . isaccoc@camp.it
Hello,
thank you for contacting C.A.M.P.! Currently, our StarKid helmet is not certified for white water use, but only for mountaineering. Actually we have not plans to obtain such type of certification for that helmet in future.
However, I am pleased to tell you that our Silver Star helmet is certified for white water use. You should try this model out, it's a very comfortable helmet. For information on stockist and pricing, please contact our UK distributor, Allcord Ltd., www.allcord.co.uk.
Thanks again for you rinquiry.
All the best,
Isacco Codega
C.A.M.P. SpA
Italy
Available in UK for £50
http://www.allcord.co.uk./catalog....tem=193
Hello,
thank you for contacting C.A.M.P.! Currently, our StarKid helmet is not certified for white water use, but only for mountaineering. Actually we have not plans to obtain such type of certification for that helmet in future.
However, I am pleased to tell you that our Silver Star helmet is certified for white water use. You should try this model out, it's a very comfortable helmet. For information on stockist and pricing, please contact our UK distributor, Allcord Ltd., www.allcord.co.uk.
Thanks again for you rinquiry.
All the best,
Isacco Codega
C.A.M.P. SpA
Italy
Available in UK for £50
http://www.allcord.co.uk./catalog....tem=193
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Yester Years Kayak
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:42 pm
- Location: Egham
I use/have a protec helmet which is EN1385, though i must admit i would rather it be a closer fit!
Protec helmet
Still, its better than nothing!!
Paul.
Protec helmet
Still, its better than nothing!!
Paul.