Is it right?

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:01 pm

Is it right or is it sexist??

At the recent Nene event the junior prizes (J12,14,16 etc.) were awarded on the overall times between the men and the ladies not in individual class i.e. ladies & men, so the ladies did not get a look in!

Is this the way to encourage the junior paddlers? I think not!!

The event was well organised and ran pretty much to time and thank you to the organisers for this, but this decision this has left a sourer taste in quite a few of the young lady competitors mouths as they feel they have been disciminated against because of their sex, which is against the BCU policy!

Perhaps this is something that the BCU & the Slalom committee should pick up on to make sure that it does not happen again at any event?

John · Post by **John** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:19 am

My initial reaction would be to say it is not discrimination. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. The organisers are not singling out women (or men) for special treatment.

Discrimination does not necessarily have to be a bad thing. It can be used to protect certain groups. Just like the junior categories. Essentially this is age discrimination. However, it has the purpose of protection younger paddlers so they can have a fair competition.

The question you should be posing is whether the BCU should have a policy to enhance women’s participation in sport at all levels.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:59 pm

This does sound surprising unless either the category (K1W) was not quorate or the category lacked sufficient juniors.

Rule 34.6 which covers prizes states that: "where there are three or more eligible competitors, organisers shall provide a prize for the junior competitor who gains the best score for the event in each category and a prize for the best Junior (J16) performance which has not attracted any other prize."

J14 and J12 prizes are discretionary, but the start list should state what prizes are being offered.

Entry numbers to K1W tend to be lower than K1M but the rules cover the number of prizes required based on the number of entrants to a category.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:21 pm

Of course these are entires on the start list, on the closing day (Friday before the event), with most entries being on the day (or at least late) these days, it is completely at the organisers discretion how much risk he/she wants to take in getting prizes. I think that Northampton have taken this approach for a number of years, allowing them to give some junior prizes without the risk of buying (say) div 2 junior 18 ladies, only to find that there are just three ladies entered on teh day.

VESTED INTEREST: OK vested interets, my club runs div 3/4 events, when we have three entires at closing date, so have interchangeable prizes we can give to anyone. SO we can give out lots of prizes, and cakes, and sweets - dont you wish you had come. Hope to see you at teh winter slaloms

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:22 pm

Excellent point CP

(I also agree that the slalom event at Orton Mere is a very enjoyable, friendly event. There is even encouragement to have a try at C2 for those who have ever felt even the slightest urge.)

Fairweather Paddler · Post by **Fairweather Paddler** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:18 pm

As a competitor at the Nene event, on the last entry list I saw it was a quarate event and plenty of juniors.

There were a few J14s including me and a lot of J12s when it came to the final run and the positions were posted I realised I was in line for a junior prize. I then went and asked the chairperson if they were doing junior prizes as if not I would gladly go back to my hotel for a good nights sleep, and he said there would be junior prizes for each catagory.

As it came to the prize giving I waited for my name to be called to collect my prize. The order in which they gave the prizes was:
K1 men div2
K1 Ladies div 2
K1 div 2
C2 div 2
same for the div 3 and div4
Then it came to the junior prizes they gave J18,J16,J14, J12 in all divisions. But it came to my attention that all the junior prizes were going to men. I then thought they would go on to the ladies but they did not. I then went and approached the chairperson of the club he said this is how they did it last year and there were complaints about the fact that the catogries are combined and that the ladies do not stand a chance against the men.

Anti-discrimiation is about levelling the playing field - the competition is split into categories for that reason, it should not be acknowledged at one point and then disregarded later.

Some of you may be thinking "all this fuss over a little bit of plastic/metal" but it does matter after all isn't that why we paid £13.50 for three runs each day of the weekend rather than having a full day's paddling!!

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:44 pm

Though I pointed out the need for the category being quorate and having sufficient juniors, CP reminded us that these are judged against numbers on the start list. Thus how many juniors were there on the K1W start list prior to the event?

John · Post by **John** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:49 pm

I think the rules seem quite clear (going by Ray). Also it seems quite fair, as CP says, that the organiser uses his experience/judgement to estimate the number of entries when purchasing the prizes.

As I understand, the rules do not allow for ladies categories to be combined with the mens (or C1 or C2). However, I think the ages groups can be combined.

So if the organiser is expecting two J14 women, two J16 women, two J14 men and two J16 men, he should be awarding one prize for the best J16 woman (J14 and J16 women combined) and one prize for the best J16 man.

Am I right in thinking that at Nene they would have given one prize to the best J14 (men and women combined) and one prize for the best J16?

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:18 pm

There was clearly enough entries prior to the event to warrant K1W junior prizes, it was openly admitted by the organisers that they had the same complaint last year and chose to do nothing about it!

I am sorry but this is clearly discrimination and in answer to John's earlier question, Yes the BCU does have a policy to enhance women’s participation in sport at all levels, shame that in most cases it is ignored especially with the C1 class now being open to lady competitors?

Perhaps this should be reported to the ICF as well!

jim croft · Post by **jim croft** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:22 am

I have been organising and running slaloms for nearly 25 years; in the 80s you would have to enter at least 3 weeks in advance to get an entry, so prizes were not a problem. The organiser had the time and opportunity to give thought and produce a list of positions eligible to receive prizes. Junior prizes may be offered at the Organiser’s discretion as stated in the Yearbook. These days it is a gamble as to the numbers and ages of competitors.

In recent years with so many late entries mainly on the day, how do you cater?

For several years now I have ordered enough Junior prizes to cater for U12, U14, U16 & U18 in all classes & gender who have not won a main event prize. We have them engraved with the event and 1st Junior but no date, at the end of the event those left over are carried forward to the next event at that venue.

In my opinion it is essential juniors should be able to compete on equal terms with their peers.

Jim Croft
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