Compulsory Airbags - Choose the one which applies

[Dutch Geezer]

Sorry folks first time at creating a poll, lets see what the people think.

[beefy]

i ahve goto say that whilst doing safety there was only one boat that we rescued that had airbags. It also has to be said that the other boats were increadabley difficult to rescue and were putting us at risk.

i dont see it should be compulsery but if you have any remote chanse of swimming just put them in!!!

[shot]

all right beefy its ben a fellow rescue ranger. It was hard but I'm ok with ppl not putting air bags in as it wont b me rescuing them nxt time.....the boats I mean

[c1mini]

personally i think airbags should be at the paddlers own disgression. they either use them or they don't. End of Story.

[Dutch Geezer]

Hey folks, this POLL was for people who dont want to voice their opinion to give their opinion by voting. The debate should still go on under the title should airbags be compulsory which is in danger of falling out of view. For those who are adding comments please vote as well.

[David.Cuthill]

Hello
Airbags should be compulsory. They have been compulsory in surf events for 10 years or so. It's just to cut down risks of injury to the rescuers, and also to allow rescuers to deal with incident 1 and be available quickly for incident 2, where they could be on hand to save a life.
Airbags are good too for the top paddlers. If your deck pops you still can paddle your boat in to the shore if it is packed full of airbags.
Dave

[Dutch Geezer]

Sorry to be picky, but the BCU Surf rules actually state:

"Buoyancy: Kayaks should be fitted out to ensure that a paddler cannot become
trapped if the footrests should fail. Full plate footrests are acceptable. Kayaks with
a solid slab of buoyancy from the bow to the cockpit, which prevents a paddler
sliding forward are acceptable. Otherwise the bow forward of the footrests should
be filled with solid buoyancy. The stern of all kayaks must have the maximum
practical space filled with buoyancy, ie air bags or foam".

I can fully understand the reasoning behind this rule for Surf and have complied with it when I have been surfing, a surf boat full of water coming in towards the shore is very dangerous to other water users in the vicinity and it would hold up the event until it had stopped being a hazard. Also the paddler who is now swimming needs his boat to float to give him something to hold onto until he can be rescued or help him to to get to shore, he could be 200 yards off shore in 10 ft waves, not the nicest of swimming conditions. I actually think that an airbag in the stern is not as good as a central slab of foam with airbags either side, but thats my personal opinion.

We dont have the same conditions in Slalom as the Surfers and its still my opinion that the current Slalom rules adequately protect the paddler.

[Dave McCraw]

At the end of the day, the main beneficiaries from the use of airbags are those who do the rescuing, not those paddling the boats, hence the resistance to compulsary fitting by the latter.

As far as I can see there are no disadvantages to airbag use, while in my experience (admittedly at the hard end of recreational WW) airbags are an enormous plus for any would-be rescuer. Of course, most slalom is on pretty sheltered water, so the consequences of swimming without bags is lower than it could be.

In my opinion, this makes it an issue of good manners; if there's any chance of you taking a swim (i.e. a less-than-bombproof paddle/hands roll) a refusal to fit bags is just disrespectful to those who have to fish you out! On the harder courses (Town Falls?) which approach recreational severity, I'd say it becomes a safety concern.

D.

[frontman2]

As I've said before, I think this is just a non-issue for slalom competition. The priority should be getting the paddler to safety, not the kit, and airbags are not going to assist this. There are very few slalom sites in this country where the total loss of a boat is a real possibility (Llangollen when high, possibly 'Tully when high). I just do not understand this ongoing "drive" to get airbags fitted. I would much rather have more foam bouyancy fitted than airbags anyway, more robust, can be glued in place, doesn't blow up in the hot sun, etc. In addition, with shorter boats, there is less space for airbags especially in the front for K1 or the rear for C1/C2. Legs have got to go somewhere (I notice none of my playboating friends have airbags in their boats).

[z306]

yer but air bags help the rescuer loads :p

[David McCraw]

As I've said before, I think this is just a non-issue for slalom competition. The priority should be getting the paddler to safety, not the kit, and airbags are not going to assist this.

I would hope that this is always the priority! But the fact that kit is less important is no reason to avoid measures which make kit rescue easier (only saying that kit is utterly worthless would really validate that position).

There are very few slalom sites in this country where the total loss of a boat is a real possibility (Llangollen when high, possibly 'Tully when high). I just do not understand this ongoing "drive" to get airbags fitted.

Airbags do more than prevent a boat dissappearing beneath the waves (this is already unlikely as structural foam gives all boats positive buoyancy). For example, if you can displace 50 litres of water from a boat, you have made it 50kg lighter and therefore much less at risk of serious damage from collision with rocks (and, much less risk of damaging rescuers!).

In addition, with shorter boats, there is less space for airbags especially in the front for K1 or the rear for C1/C2. Legs have got to go somewhere.

It follows that smaller boats have less volume to be displaced by airbags - that's okay, because there is less water in there in the first place. So in a smaller boat, the airbags would naturally be smaller and might even be limited to bow or stern (although that destroys the trim of a waterlogged boat so it isn't ideal).

(I notice none of my playboating friends have airbags in their boats)

But all my creekboating friends do! Airbags, like any piece of safety kit, come down to individual choice but that doesn't mean there isn't a right and wrong answer to the issue. I would refuse to allow anybody without a one-handed knife to be in a safety/throwline role (under any circumstances) and I would never take any of your playboating friends on the river if they didn't care to take simple precautions like helmets, BAs or flotation...

D.

[frontman2]

I presume the sort of rivers you paddle recreationally are relatively isolated and trips are more than a few hundred yards? In this instance, airbags make sense (so would more fixed foam bouyancy as well), as do they for river racing boats where the consequences of a swim are more than just picking a boat out of the river just downstream. The environment in which you paddle dictates the safety measures taken.

Slalom, as you indicate, takes place in relatively protected conditions where the risk to paddler and boat of a swim are minimal compared to river running. In all the years I've been racing, I cannot remember anyone seriously hurting themselves rescuing a boat or paddler, and that includes races abroad on very much rougher water than the UK. Personally I have always found airbags to be a pain, deflating, getting in the way, floating free etc. It's just my opinion, plenty of people will disagree, including yourself.

On your last point, who said anything about not wearing crash hats and bouyancy aids anyway?

[Yester Years Kayak]

Rule changes occurred in WWR a few years ago, and it is now compulsory to have air bags in place (and inflated). There are rules for the minimum size air bag for both ends of the boats, and their distribution. If they are not fitted you cannot race, simple/end of argument.

Granted, slalom can be viewed as being safer due to the proximity of others who can provide assistance if you are in difficulty, so you can argue for and against air bags in all disciplines of canoeing.

I get the impression that this rule change (in WWR) came about due to the lack of respect by some (international) paddlers to the benefits you get from fixed foam buoyancy, as it was only sufficient to provide some structural support to the boat and nothing else. The end result was that on occasions paddlers got in to difficult due to insufficient bouyancy.

There is a point where fixed foam buoyancy is not longer able to provide any realistic buoyancy, either because the paddlers has removed it or it has deteriorated over time, and in a day and age when we now have the health and safety aspect forced on us, is it not responsible to have a minimum requirement for installed buoyancy included alongside dimensions of a boat?

Maybe what we should have, is not the making of airbags a compulsory rule, but a simple statement to ensure that a boat contains a sufficient amount of internal buoyancy. New boats would be expected to be up to standard, so there would be no problem for the majority of paddlers. The use of bouyancy bags would then be up to the organiser to enforce if they feel they are necessary (but how would you police such a ruling....).

Food for thought indeed!

Paul.

[Canadian Paddler]

You mean something like
'19.1 All boats must be made unsinkable....'
combined with
19.3.1 In doubtful cases, bouyancy of the boat is checked. The boat must float level at the surface when filled with water.

Although in too many years to remember, I have never seen one checked!

Putting air bags in the back could well result in the boat not floating level (failing part of 19.3.1) but only a fool (or me! :;): ) would consider that a doubtful case!

Personally I river raced with airbags, as I was frequently away from others for a long time (as I was so slow), but have never used air bags in all my years in slalom, and never had a problem with the boat being full of water.

I favour leaving it up to the individual. It has worked for me for more than three decades.

[Geebs]

Slalom, as you indicate, takes place in relatively protected conditions where the risk to paddler and boat of a swim are minimal compared to river running.

This is true, if the organiser's ensure there are proper safety precaution's in place.

Does anyone think that a 10,11,12 year old girl/boy paddling in Div1 could rescue a boat at the finish line?

In play boat term's it is easy to judge the weight of a boat filled with water as most manfactures state the volume. i.e. a short play boat has a volume of 47 gallon's that's 470 pound's plus the weight of the boat, total about 503.6 pounds in weight full, put airbag's in and the weight would reduce to around 190/210 pounds that is a big differance to move on the water.

What is the volume of a slalom boat in comparison?