LLANGOLLEN TOWN FALLS PREM/ONE

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:51 pm

I like the idea of a provisional judging list being published along with the start list, perhaps with a list of other paddlers who may be called upon in the case of cancellations/injuries etc. It would certainly reduce the number of excuses.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:26 pm

The only thing that throws a spanner in the works if a paddler was going to enter Div1 K1 and C1 Prem they would then be doing 4 races back to back, this is not acceptable!

Heck of a long way to travel for most for one days paddling!

I can't believe that the thought of the fishermen giving up the last day of the season was ever on the cards, perhaps the season should be checked before setting dates for the slalom in future years?

paddler · Post by **paddler** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:36 pm

why has the event got to be stopped how does the canoeing affect the fish

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:22 pm

I think Ken's judging suggestion works and Nicky's right if folk don't turn up for their stint - then disqualify them

At a recent event my daughter actually missed her race slot because she wasn't relieved in time while judging. As someone said - lowest of the low.

Someone else suggested paddlers could bring someone along to judge for them - Very good suggestion - as long as that person knows how to judge! I've seen some very odd calls recently from judges who perhaps should have been given some help

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:59 pm

Two someones in one - I am guilty of both the quotes above!

My concern about publishing a judging list with the start list, is where do you get the really late entries to judge? I suppose they can take the slots from other paddlers.

I've seen some very strange judging from paddlers, let alone supporters, but I have also found that if you say 'help, they have never judged before, but will now, then most judging organisers will go out of their way to make it easy, provided you say!

Worst excuse so far when on jury was from a northern prem paddler who said

I can't judge, I do not know the rules

and then admitted he wanted to get off early (not unreasonable) so we changed his judging stint to earlier and he did not turn up for his stint! By teh time we located him, it was to see tail lights leaving some 30 mins after his revised stiny finished.

Disqualifying him made no difference, he had a bad day, so it was no hardship. Perhaps docking points would be a better sanction, so leaving early does not just disqualify a bad result, it lowers your points total :rock:

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi - sorry for not crediting the quotes - but it shows solidarity !

Good grief!

All I can say is I think that these folk are in the minority - Prem paddler who "didn't know the rules!" Maybe that should have been enough to get them relegated

ergo if you don't know the rules (even if kidding) you shouldn't be in Prem!

And yes help is always available some folk just don't ask! I should have said "should have asked for help"

Pretty sure the majority of folk are decent enough to know that everyone is a volunteer and that we should all contribute regardless.

I speak as someone who travels from the Scottish Highlands to events, and honestly and extra hour/ half hour at an event makes very little difference in the scheme of things

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:54 am

To quote you AGAIN, CanAdian Paddler......

My concern about publishing a judging list with the start list, is where do you get the really late entries to judge? I suppose they can take the slots from other paddlers.

Except, in this instance

No entries will be accepted that arrive after Monday 12th October or are sent without payment.
The Final timetable and Start List will hopefully be published by Tuesday 13th.

So, there can't be any "really late" entries (except possibly promotions following Llandysul etc who I assume might be allowed a late entry, but these really are a special case).

The problem I see, is that if Prem paddlers don't know that they are on to judge at 9am, say, then they might understandably choose to have an extra hour in bed and arrive at 10/11am!

If a provisional judging timetable is published and a prem paddler doesn't do his stint, then he/she just shouldn't be allowed to do a run at all. Bit harder with div 1s who will already have done their runs

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:01 am

I speak as someone who travels from the Scottish Highlands to events, and honestly and extra hour/ half hour at an event makes very little difference in the scheme of things

Ah, but, speaking as someone from the opposite end of the country... when you are driving towards London, leaving 1/2 hour later can mean getting home 1.5 hrs later or worse if the M25 is involved! It's this stuff called traffic which is horrendous on Friday nights and Sunday evenings. Not saying that people shouldn't be required to do their judging stint, far from it, but that half hour can make a pretty big difference by the time you get to the other end!

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:31 pm

Dee, agree that this time there should not be any really late entries, I was thinking more generically.

But for the 18th, my clarvoyance is on the blink, how many judging posts will there be? so how many judges are needed?

Too much negativity from this end, I agree that at least saying that that AS A MINIMUM we will need the following six(eight?ten?) paddlers at 9, then the following at 10. . . with admonishments to check for latest information as to when and where the judging roat will be.

I also agree that the back end is as important, we need to give the div 1 paddlers judging at the end time to organise this with their lifts/find their own stand ins and tell the judging organiser.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:52 pm

Clarvoyance bit did cross my mind too, but I'd be surprised if the organisers can't take an educated guess based on the course design at least as to numbers. Perhaps assume one more position than expected and if those people aren't used then they are just lucky!

Generically, this would only be an option if all entries are required in advance (including judges).

dsamartin · Post by **dsamartin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 am

Slightly off topic but thought I'd pass on a great offer--have managed to get great rate for B&B at Wild Pheasant for the 17th October for under £50 for two people, its normally £105(spa sauna etc sounds perfect race preparation!!)
Got it via the website reservetravel.com

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:44 pm

We've stayed at Wild Pheasant several times. Spa is so so. Rooms in new section are fine but in the older part of the hotel much less desirable. Having said that £50 is probably still good value, though £105 is a rip off. You can easily walk into town from the hotel. Cross road and walk in direction of town and a short distance on the right is a cul-d-sac, at the end of which is a path that goes down to the river and then it's a pleasant walk along the river (take a torch if you go in the evening though!).

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:04 pm

I know that this might stir up a can of worms, but why do we have to ask the fishermen when we can run the race? I can't see that there is any useful fishing spots on the race course, and an awful lot of the land is owned by the council, hotels and the railway. I do hope that certain local canoeing businesses are no longer involved in the negotiations.

NKcanoe · Post by **NKcanoe** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:22 pm

How many paddlers will turn up just for the Sunday, race & go home?
I wonder how the local business's feel about the potetial loss of trade? (Bars, Resturants, B&B, etc. )
Well done Fishermen.
I am coming over on Thursday to Monday, but, I will be one of the many that will not stay around.

Well done to Ken for getting the Sunday, Lets hope for lots of water, to wash all the fish downstream!!!

NK.

Ken Trollope · Post by **Ken Trollope** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:40 pm

Just a Reminder.

You probaby have no more than 4 posting days left to ensure an entry.

The entry fee must be sent with the card otherwise it will not be accepted. (This currently applies to a div1 K1M, will not name names on chat page. A SAE, contact number or email address would have helped not just a card). Provided I know in advance that you cannot make the event I will refund the entry fee, if you just don't turn up tough.

I will publish the start list at the latest on Tuesday 13th and will also give a indication of which paddlers will be required to help and when.

If you do not appear on this start list then you have not got an entry.

Ken