LLANGOLLEN TOWN FALLS PREM/ONE

Ken Trollope · Post by **Ken Trollope** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Llangollen Town Falls Prem / Div1

After long and protracted negotiations with the fishermen, we have been refused permission to paddle on Town Falls on Saturday 17th October 2009. (Last day of Salmon fishing season).
We will however be allowed to erect the course for Sunday.

I am therefore proposing to hold a combined Prem/One event on Sunday 18th October.

The Div1 will be run first, back to back, and some Prem paddlers will be required to judge.
The Prem will then Race, back to back, with some Div 1 paddlers judging.

Practice for Div 1 will start at 08:30 with Runs starting at 09:30. The Premier Race will start 13:30.

No entries will be accepted that arrive after Monday 12th October or are sent without payment.
The Final timetable and Start List will hopefully be published by Tuesday 13th.

Judges will be picked from reverse order of entry arrival. I realise that some of you will not be happy with this arrangement but the only other alternative is to cancel the event completely
so your co-operation will be appreciated.

Ken Trollope.

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:06 pm

What a shame

But well done for re-jigging!

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:07 am

Thanks for the update Ken. Most unfortunate but Im sure you will make a good job of it

Is the back to back of divisions anything to do with a course change or will everyone be running the same course? If the latter, then I trust the course will be a Prem course? Whatever it is, I'm delighted that its a proper event on a "real" river rather than being moved to the concrete and plastic Disney flume

PP

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:26 am

[I'm delighted that its a proper event on a "real" river rather than being moved to the concrete and plastic Disney flume]

the plastic disney flume is also part of a real river, its the same dodgy water going down both sides

it can be relied upon to deliver a good level and exciting courses as last weeks race showed
lets hope the real river delivers after all its only two years ago when we had a prem race on the flat ???
well done to ken and his team for negotiating a days racing however i strongly disagree with paddlers who have got their entries in on time and have paid having to judge especially if the weather conditions are poor persuade those with late entries, spouses, friends and parents but not paddlers it just isnt fair

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:16 am

If everyone judges rather than taking the attitude that "I shouldn't have to because I got my entry in on time" then everyone will have much shorter stints and hopefully not get too cold. I suspect that those on the timing team and doing section judging will have longer stints to deal with no matter what the weather.

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:11 pm

still dont think judging is good race prep, there is also the danger that the div 1s will leave after their event

Dadstaxi · Post by **Dadstaxi** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:12 pm

Kazz

Dangerous territory with that statement.. 'Prem are the best so have to prepare days in advance'. You will find that many of the Div 1 paddlers are just as focused. What is the harm of the Prem paddlers putting in a bit of judging. Afterall you will be sat watching the water going through a section of the course & so at least that part of the course you will be able to know the water flow & the best lines to take. And I'm sure that the timetable for the day will be such that you will have plenty of opportunity to race prepare. Afterall Div 1's are going down before the prems so in factthere will be something in the region of 100 Demo runs. Far better than any Prem race I've attended this year where you have had the benefit of a max of 5 only.

As Munchkin points out if everyone does a stint then these stints will be short. Us on the Timing team will be doing at least half the day by the water, with the other half spent either behind the scenes helping or assisting. And yes we will also (in some cases) be competing and/or assisting competitors. And the Div 1's won't be moaning about having to do a stint of judging either.

DT

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:55 pm

Kazz - Perhaps if the division 1s leave without doing their judging stint and do not have a good reason or have not found a replacement their result should be discounted if that is the concern? Though I don't personally know of any that would.

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:43 pm

Yes i agree but is 'ive got a long way to travel home' a good reason?? sometimes its not the paddlers fault as parents or those who they are travelling with will leave early--this happened at last weeks HPP race and SAS members were called upon (and they did a grand job!) to replace those who hadnt turned up--i still dont think that doing a judging stint before a prem race is good prep at least the div 1's are doing their judging after their runs and not before--can some of the prem paddlers reply to see if they do/dont mind ???

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:02 am

[grumpy old man mode on]
There is a third way - bring someone to judge for you, then you can prepare how you want.

The event needs judging, are you suggesting that prem paddlers are so good they do not need ot be judged - if there are not enough volunteers we have to find judges somewhere.
[grumpy old man mode off]

seriously there is a problem, yes sitting on a river bank is not the best preperation, but we have too few volunteers. In my (VERY biased) opinion the lowest of the low are the paddelrs asked to judge who just do not turnup, often leaving a paddler judging for longer until we can find a volunteer.

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:20 am

the lowest of the low are the paddelrs asked to judge who just do not turnup

Agreed - along with those who put in a judges entry and then don't turn up and don't contact the organiser to warn them.

At HPP, it wasn't just SAS members back filling. I was a last minute volunteer to fill in for a non-turnup. I said at the time I could only manage an hour, partly cos of getting away, but also because I get sun burn if I'm out for too long! In the event I was out for 1.5 hrs because the next judge didn't turn up either!

(On the plus side, I'm glad to say that once I managed to indicate to the section judge that I needed to be replaced, another stand in was found promptly, so no blame to organisers).

Please, if you are not going to do your stint at any race, tell the organiser; don't just leave another poor soul doing a double stint.

Dadstaxi · Post by **Dadstaxi** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:26 pm

Not sure how feasible this is & I know it depends on the number of gate judges required but to prevent people either not knowing they are going to judge (or the prems turning up at 1200 for their 1330 race!!) - could the Judging timetable be planned / published here once entries have closed. That way people know when they need to make themselves available. Just a thought

Kazz · Post by **Kazz** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:37 pm

Never thought about the prems who have a long travel as they will turn up a couple of hours before their run and therefore miss the div 1 ??? it might be a good idea for people to tell ken if they are willing to judge and going to be about on the morning at least he would know how many paddlers he would need and could draw up a rota on the latest prem entries received it would also be a good way of getting the entries in on time

NathanF · Post by **NathanF** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:48 pm

This is slightly off the topic but will anyone be travelling down the M6 who has room in/on their car for a boat,paddler and kit? I am at university in Penrith and am struggling to get to events, any help would be most appreciated. PM me or email me on: nathan_fuller at hotmail.co.uk

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:41 pm

I agree with Ken's method, the earlier entries come in the easier it is to administer an event, so last come, first to judge seems fair to me...

If people don't turn up, disqualify them. It is fair, it's not as if it comes as a surprise as everyone knows the concequences...

I don't think that half an hour of judging will effect anyone's performance, I doubt anyone needs a whole morning to prepare and if they do, they should get their entries in early so they don't have to!

As usual, I'm sure my entry will be late and I'm sure I'll be judging!

Nicky