Evening slalom friends.
As paddler representative on the slalom committee I have been asked to get a feel for the slalom communities opinions on the junior and veteran champs as they are.
Observations which have been made are as follow:
Junior champs are not well attended by the countries best paddlers
The junior champs lacks the prestige it once held
The difficulty of the water may not be appropriate to the vets and juniors who are racing.
I'd be very grateful if anyone would be willing to contribute to understanding why the above may be happening. Any suggestions which would allow for the Junior and Veteran championships to be better attended and raised to a higher level of prestige would be greatly received and passed on to the committee.
If you'd like your comments to be kept private don't hesitate to email me: c2canoeslalom(at)hotmail.com
Cheers,
Gareth Wilson
P.S. I'm currently in Europe with intermittent internet access. I'll be back on the 10th and endeavour to respond to your comments.
Junior and Vet Champs - Improvements/suggestions
Playing Devils Advocate:
As the Divisional Veterans did not want to be called Vets, and have now changed their name to Masters, does this not mean that there are now only 30 true Veterans (from the yearbook) eligible to compete in this event.
Assuming 50% decide not to travel to Wales (next years venue) is this event viable anymore?
Discuss.
:p
As the Divisional Veterans did not want to be called Vets, and have now changed their name to Masters, does this not mean that there are now only 30 true Veterans (from the yearbook) eligible to compete in this event.
Assuming 50% decide not to travel to Wales (next years venue) is this event viable anymore?
Discuss.
:p
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PaulBolton
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:30 pm
- Location: Lincoln
I competed at Cardington one year and came second (mainly because most of my peer paddlers did not attend). I decided not to return for the second year primarily for 2 reasons. Firstly, the course was Div 3 standard and, secondly, no practise was allowed, thus entailing I'd travelled a long way for 2 runs. It was particularly frustrating to wait for over 2 hours for an event to start, a full course, water on and no one paddling!! So, Prem rules on Div 3 water and a long day with little water time and masses of waiting about. Fairnilee and Llandysul are 600 and 500 mile round trips, so no way I'm travelling that far with the risk of so little activity. Simples.
OK, so a couple of negative replies but no suggestions as to what would make it work!!
As for the name we are aware of this and I am sure can be changed to imcorperate masters.
Paul you say where and why you wouldn't go how about a constructive suggestion to counteract that - what would make you want to compete??
That is the whole point of this if paddlers don't like it we need to know what they would like!!
As for the name we are aware of this and I am sure can be changed to imcorperate masters.
Paul you say where and why you wouldn't go how about a constructive suggestion to counteract that - what would make you want to compete??
That is the whole point of this if paddlers don't like it we need to know what they would like!!
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PaulBolton
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:30 pm
- Location: Lincoln
I'm always happy to make suggestions for improvement, I'd assumed constructive criticism (albeit it personal opinion) would facilitate the extrapolation of suggestions for improvement. I think all I indicated was to hold the events on better water and allow people as much water time as is practical.
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oldandslow
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:11 pm
- Location: Peak District
I think the answer is that it needs advertising to promote it more. It also needs explaining in the yearbook/website that it's open to all juniors and veterans and not just the invited/selected. The first time we came across it, we travelled all the way to Llandysul and just raced at the div 2 on Saturday and went home again on Sunday. Even when we were actually there, we didn't realise that we all could have entered on Sunday as Vet and Juniors.
I think it should stay on Div 2 standard water. Prem/div1 paddlers can paddle on that but not viseversa. I would also think that the majority of vets and juniors, certainly most women and U14's are div2 or below.
I reckon, if asked, Matlock would be happy to host it, as they used to do in the past.
I think it should stay on Div 2 standard water. Prem/div1 paddlers can paddle on that but not viseversa. I would also think that the majority of vets and juniors, certainly most women and U14's are div2 or below.
I reckon, if asked, Matlock would be happy to host it, as they used to do in the past.
Life is what happens when you're making other plans.
my opinion is probably meaningless as i am neither vet nor sadly junior anymore but i'd think an event in the middle of teh country would be better (matlock/HPP). would it be posible to run an A & B league say on the main course and chicken shoots (@ HPP) like they do at the polo national champs. That way those who want the challenge of the water can have it by choice say div 1&prem must be a andthe rest can be a or b?
as i said its not an event i intend to go to for at least the next 15 years but thats my thoughts!
as i said its not an event i intend to go to for at least the next 15 years but thats my thoughts!
Anne, why are you always so defensive when answering any criticism on this site?
I would have thought Paul's email implied exactly what needs to be done to make the junior/veteran's champs more appealing, but if you're having trouble making the connections, then I'll spell them out for you:
1) Hold the competition somewhere central - I used to attend when it was at Matlock (I'm a dv and have been for many years), but I'm not going to travel all the way to Llandysul/Farnilee for a non-ranking event, and I suspect I'm not the only one to feel this way.
2) Hold it on better water. Usually at the time of the year that the Junior/Vets champs are held, Llandysul and Farnilee are more div 3 standard than div 2. I accept that HPP may be making it too hard for some, but what about the Washburn, a good 'middle grade' course?
3) Advertise it a bit more. The event was so low key this year that I had to check where it had been held on the calendar before typing this post!
There you go, three constructive thoughts that I believe would increase participation in this particular event, none of which are exactly rocket science.
I would have thought Paul's email implied exactly what needs to be done to make the junior/veteran's champs more appealing, but if you're having trouble making the connections, then I'll spell them out for you:
1) Hold the competition somewhere central - I used to attend when it was at Matlock (I'm a dv and have been for many years), but I'm not going to travel all the way to Llandysul/Farnilee for a non-ranking event, and I suspect I'm not the only one to feel this way.
2) Hold it on better water. Usually at the time of the year that the Junior/Vets champs are held, Llandysul and Farnilee are more div 3 standard than div 2. I accept that HPP may be making it too hard for some, but what about the Washburn, a good 'middle grade' course?
3) Advertise it a bit more. The event was so low key this year that I had to check where it had been held on the calendar before typing this post!
There you go, three constructive thoughts that I believe would increase participation in this particular event, none of which are exactly rocket science.
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kendall chew
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:21 pm
- Location: Cheshire
Having an event like this at one permanent venue centrally based, seems like a sensible idea. Matlock is a very well run event and on good(ish) water but sooner or later, I am afraid that we will have an injury when someone steps off the pavement into the path of an oncoming car. Access, although not difficult, does provide logistical problems- if you forget or leave something in the tent you can't just pop back for it. In these respects, both HPP and Washburn are more relaxed, particularly where immediate traffic hazard is concerned. Also, family hangers on ( the Fan club) can dissappear (one s two p's?) for a walk and do something else during the long gaps between individual events. You can't really take the dog for a nice walk on the road into Matlock - we do have to consider the non paddling fraternity as well. HPP has Main chute, Daleks and Chicken run in its favour, you can walk the dog/ let the kids run wild and have a BBQ and it's centrally based.
Washburn, although in Whippet and Black Pudding country, is, in my view, one of the country's best sites and I feel is hughly underused for Slalom. It has just about everything; good camping, walking, peace of mind (no traffic), kids can run around, good on bank viewing all the way down the course and further, the opportunity to paddle on a river when not competing but whilst the competition is still running if that's what you want. It is possibly a bit tough on a Div three paddler! but there must be a way around that. My vote: Washburn or HPP, in that order. Also, if you want to make the event more interesting, get people in to do talks, provide on bank technique sessions, run film shows. Open it up a bit, so there are other reasons for trolling up the motorway to sit on the riverbank - it is a special event, so make it special. Look outside of Slalom to the freestyle world for inspiration.
Washburn, although in Whippet and Black Pudding country, is, in my view, one of the country's best sites and I feel is hughly underused for Slalom. It has just about everything; good camping, walking, peace of mind (no traffic), kids can run around, good on bank viewing all the way down the course and further, the opportunity to paddle on a river when not competing but whilst the competition is still running if that's what you want. It is possibly a bit tough on a Div three paddler! but there must be a way around that. My vote: Washburn or HPP, in that order. Also, if you want to make the event more interesting, get people in to do talks, provide on bank technique sessions, run film shows. Open it up a bit, so there are other reasons for trolling up the motorway to sit on the riverbank - it is a special event, so make it special. Look outside of Slalom to the freestyle world for inspiration.
and people wonder why members of the slalom committee don't take part in discussions on here....!
One other thought to throw in - do the 2 races have to be run together - could the junior champs (as they used to be) be a seprerate entity using water that ALL can paddle from the 8 year olds to the top juniors.
The Vet/Masters champs could then be run on better water - (although I am sure there will be some that predere the easier water) such as run in conjunction with for example hold a Div 1/2 event one day eg Washburn and Vets/Masters on the other, allowing practice or run at the British Open??
One other thought to throw in - do the 2 races have to be run together - could the junior champs (as they used to be) be a seprerate entity using water that ALL can paddle from the 8 year olds to the top juniors.
The Vet/Masters champs could then be run on better water - (although I am sure there will be some that predere the easier water) such as run in conjunction with for example hold a Div 1/2 event one day eg Washburn and Vets/Masters on the other, allowing practice or run at the British Open??
Anne,
You're doing it again! The problem is that you do not enter into discussion on this site. Anything that seems to be deemed critiscism of the slalom committee (whether it is or not) then seems to be answered sarcastically/rudely, as I would consider your answer to the first set of posts on this thread.
Lighten up and accept that if you are going to ask for opinions on a topic you are going to get some you don't like!
You're doing it again! The problem is that you do not enter into discussion on this site. Anything that seems to be deemed critiscism of the slalom committee (whether it is or not) then seems to be answered sarcastically/rudely, as I would consider your answer to the first set of posts on this thread.
Lighten up and accept that if you are going to ask for opinions on a topic you are going to get some you don't like!
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kendall chew
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:21 pm
- Location: Cheshire
When wanting to hold the event somewhere central - are we talking Central England or Central UK? 
For those of us in Central Scotland Matlock is a 7 to 8 hour drive, for those in Aberdeen - that's a 9 to 10 hour drive.
Scottish paddlers are well used to having to travel long distances to get to events - usually an average of 6/7 hours driving time - as the majority of Div. 1 and Prem races are outside Scotland.
So I personally think rotating the venue for British Champs (especially for Junior events where the travel burden is on the family) between the home nations is an equitable solution.
It also provides an opportunity for more organisers to gain experience in organising such an event as it is held at more than one venue.
Maybe a separate event for British Masters Champs is the way forward to get the appropriate level of water if the participating numbers can justify this kind of event.
For those of us in Central Scotland Matlock is a 7 to 8 hour drive, for those in Aberdeen - that's a 9 to 10 hour drive.
Scottish paddlers are well used to having to travel long distances to get to events - usually an average of 6/7 hours driving time - as the majority of Div. 1 and Prem races are outside Scotland.
So I personally think rotating the venue for British Champs (especially for Junior events where the travel burden is on the family) between the home nations is an equitable solution.
It also provides an opportunity for more organisers to gain experience in organising such an event as it is held at more than one venue.
Maybe a separate event for British Masters Champs is the way forward to get the appropriate level of water if the participating numbers can justify this kind of event.
Not you Kendal I like it when ideas are thrown about and not just the negatives!!
The whole point of this is to improve what is on offer for the paddlers, with them in mind!!!
I don't mind suggestions I don't like, I learnt a long time you can never please all the people all the time! - I just don't like rudness!!
But I think I might stop even looking at this site!!!
The whole point of this is to improve what is on offer for the paddlers, with them in mind!!!
I don't mind suggestions I don't like, I learnt a long time you can never please all the people all the time! - I just don't like rudness!!
But I think I might stop even looking at this site!!!
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kendall chew
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:21 pm
- Location: Cheshire
Hi Boatmum,
You are of course right about rotating the event. Part of my own point earlier was that those of us who are not paddlers and who may have travel long distances to reach such venues also need some incentive to come. If the event is to be a special one then lets make it just that by making a real weekend of it. The event will continue until paddlers stop paddling but if it is really to be an event that people talk about and want to return to year after year we need to add a bit of Razz a matazz. Why not have first aid courses, basic riverbank rescue lectures, talks on the development of paddler training, playboating demonstrations. latest thoughts on the olympic squad. If we don't take ownership of the event as a whole and it just continues in the same vein year on year, then we will loose some of our better paddlers to other events. This is not intended to be a rebuff of your observations, just a continuation of my own rant from earlier.
You are of course right about rotating the event. Part of my own point earlier was that those of us who are not paddlers and who may have travel long distances to reach such venues also need some incentive to come. If the event is to be a special one then lets make it just that by making a real weekend of it. The event will continue until paddlers stop paddling but if it is really to be an event that people talk about and want to return to year after year we need to add a bit of Razz a matazz. Why not have first aid courses, basic riverbank rescue lectures, talks on the development of paddler training, playboating demonstrations. latest thoughts on the olympic squad. If we don't take ownership of the event as a whole and it just continues in the same vein year on year, then we will loose some of our better paddlers to other events. This is not intended to be a rebuff of your observations, just a continuation of my own rant from earlier.