Lee Valley - Div 2/3 Race This Saturday

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:50 pm

Just a thought, but if badly filled/incomplete entry forms are causing a real problem and a lot of extra work for event organisers, isn't it time a harsher regime was adopted with regard to them? They are not difficult to complete, thus it would suggest a certain amount of laziness on the part of competitors.

I would suggest rejecting incomplete/wrongly completed entry cards and their return to the respective competitors. If the orginal entry was received on time, event organisers could then charge a late entry fee for returned forms, or if they were already late, make a surchage at the event.

I think you will find that most other sports will reject incomplete/incorrect entries. Ulimately if you don't apply a bit of stick, then nothing will improve.

James

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:35 pm

Anne wrote:I can confirm that if you successfully negotiate the course that will count as your assessment.

Good news and certainly quickest way. Albeit that this counting as an assessment doesn't include rolling like everyone else who paid up.
Are they seriously going to say that you can go on the Olympic course if there is no evidence you can roll? Recipe for swims if you ask me

How are they going to manage the continued assessment on the Olympic course, presumably you will have to come back and continue your assessment???

slink · Post by **slink** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:48 pm

As I understand it from the LV website, there are 2 assessments anyway, one for the Legacy channel and one for the Olympic course, so I would imagine that this method would only be a Legacy assessment, so no, you wouldn't be allowed to paddle to Olympic course on the strength of it...

So, does this mean I can now book water slots for Sunday on the strength of completing our runs on Saturday...and will a 50 count as failing the assessment (I am assuming a swim will)?

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:49 pm

Yeah that's right

When I went you had to be assessed on the Legacy before you were deemed fit to go on the big boy and if you were your assessment continued on the Olympic course all for a tenner.
If you didn't pass assessment or opted not to go on big boy you have to pay another tenner when you go back to do so and then be assessed on Olympic

As previously stated I did have to roll on Legacy not just lake - I don't know how this could be managed during race though.
As I believe Neil F alluded it may be that there are some non-rollers out there who might get down the Legacy unscathed. However, if racing then counts as your Legacy assessment you can come back and book on Olympic without having demonstrated a moving water roll!? I think that is probably a swimfest waiting to happen - hope no-one gets hurt

Dee · Post by **Dee** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:31 pm

Just a thought, but if badly filled/incomplete entry forms are causing a real problem and a lot of extra work for event organisers, isn't it time a harsher regime was adopted with regard to them? They are not difficult to complete, thus it would suggest a certain amount of laziness on the part of competitors.

I would suggest rejecting incomplete/wrongly completed entry cards and their return to the respective competitors. If the orginal entry was received on time, event organisers could then charge a late entry fee for returned forms, or if they were already late, make a surchage at the event.

I think you will find that most other sports will reject incomplete/incorrect entries. Ulimately if you don't apply a bit of stick, then nothing will improve.

James

But no sae's anymore and incomplete includes incomplete address so a bit stimied I'd say. The organiser is allowed to reject the entry, but this is not easy to do either!

To be fair, new promotees to div 3 may not find it as easy. At that stage they often don't realise that the number on their new bib is indeed their start number and K1 paddlers don't always twig that there are C1s and C2s and so K1 is Class etc. I have less sympathy with div 1 paddlers who say that they didn't have time to look up this years bib number (and by implication that the organiser could do it instead

)

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:57 pm

Being able to roll on the Legacy Loop is no indication that you can roll on the Olympic Course either. I am sure I would be able to roll on the Legacy Loop even after beeing out of a boat for 5 months and unable to rest my foot on the footrest but my roll failed on the Olympic Course!

They have to draw a line somewhere.

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:08 pm

Best place to draw a line is where it has been drawn for everybody else who payed for an assessment. I guess if you can't roll on the flat or Legacy you have zero chance on the other course.
The odds have to increase if you can albeit by only a percentage.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:35 pm

As stated in the info - this is ONLY for the legacy loop - if you want olympic you have to book in for that assessment another time. It has really been difficult pinning the centre staff down as LOCOG has taken over lock stock and ballel for 2 weeks so if they decide you need to demonstrate a roll we will have to try and work it in for those who need. I will ask those doing safety to make a note of bib numbers of anyone who rolls. Anyone who can't roll would, in my humble opinion, be wasting there time (and others who have to keep rescuing them) paddling on the course at any time except at a race! Yes I know even those who can roll have to bale out at times!

Neilo · Post by **Neilo** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:32 am

Hi,
Great to see the details up and start list. Well done to all those involved in arranging this event, it is a fabulous venue and am really looking forward to it.
I notice that the practice is from 9:00 onwards, full runs only, which is good (the eddies are fast) and that some gates will be positioned in the lake. In practicing, you will need to be aware that if the Olympic Course is not running the lake level is higher that when it is. This does have an effect on the lower section of the Legacy Course, significanty on a bottom stopper (unless the course has changed recently), which is washed out when the water level is higher. Hope this is of help.

Looking forward to seeing you all on Saturday.

Neil.

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:39 pm

No-one knows how good a paddler is at rolling better than the paddler themselves. There are so many factors that influence the success of a roll. A rolling history on different types of water + the paddler's/parents judgement is just as important as watching someone do a couple of rolls when they're not tired, breathless, distracted or panicked. Perhaps Lee Valley could ask every paddler to sign next to a statement such as - 'If I capsize, I would normally expect to roll my kayak without difficulty on this water'.

The ultimate rolling test would be when really short of breathe, muscles screaming with lactic acid, held in a stopper, with the side you usually put your rolling paddle being upstream when capsized. (must remember to practice rolling on my weaker side, and choosing the correct side to roll on in a stopper, rather than my usual 'hope to be flushed out' approach).

Considering that nearly everyone will take a swim at some point no matter how good their roll is, perhaps a swimming assessment is just as important.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:23 am

There is a 'full day' of rafting on the Olympic course so we should be OK for not washing out.

A couple of rapid blocs have been moved on the course to make it more of a slalom than freestyle course. (Guess who will be putting them back before he goes home Saturday?

I just need to measure the course length, and maybe get a dispensation if it is short, but at the moment all gates are on the loop, none in teh lake.

Remember a full day rafting PLUS a slalom means that parking will be at a premium.

and LEE VALLEY RULES: If you want to step over the chain fence you must wear a BA, the course can be seen well from outside the chain, but if you are judging and do not want to use the same BA to judge and compete, bring two. :p

John Stoner · Post by **John Stoner** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:23 pm

Really looking forward to the weekend. However, we've got a paddler missing from the start list - Sam Pateman Div 3 Man, Break Out - could somebody investigate please? Many thanks.

slink · Post by **slink** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:43 pm

Apparently there are quite a few...it was the final straw for one of our paddlers who has had enough with the whole thing and is now not going in case the weekend continues in the same fashion

Mr Munchkin · Post by **Mr Munchkin** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:58 pm

I'm just as frustrated... and apologies if I've dropped a name; please let me know (andrew.grudzinski@googlemail.com) and I'll happily sort it out!

Unfortunately, it is not helped by a couple of entries never making it through the mail, so in turn it is a bit difficult to add people to the start list

As it is, I've had entries on incomplete cards, beautiful (and less beautiful) letters, emails, and a scrap of paper which looks like it featured in WW1.

THANK YOU to all who have properly completed entry cards, and I shall pass on your regards to 'Mr Posty' when I see him...

Look forward to seeing you all at Lee Valley...

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:13 pm

Mr Munchkin wrote:Unfortunately, it is not helped by a couple of entries never making it through the mail, so in turn it is a bit difficult to add people to the start list

and don't forget those that were sent to the wrong person!