British Open in November

[PeterC]

We are trying to work out how to run the British Open this year. If we run this at Lee Valley which we are planning to, we will need to meet significant costs for the site and in particular the pumps. At the ACM it was agreed that where required races could charge higher fees. As there is a significant chunk of fixed costs the more entries we have the lower we can set the fees, we are absolutely not trying to make a profit from this race. We will be looking at an entry fee of at least £40-45 for the weekend. I am aware of a variety of views from no way, to acceptance that this is a price worth paying to race on Lee Valley. I need ideally have some idea of the balance of views so discussion would be welcome.....

[Flyhigh3]

Having been at the senior and u23 selection weekend I would say it was a fantastic weekend of racing and great experience for the paddlers...and sometimes I think that in the scheme of the amount we pay out for travel and going to slaloms over the year 'what's another fiver'.....but I think even I might hesitate at £45 for less than ten minmutes on the water. (And I remember last cold, wet, windy November!).
Is there no way to get sponsorship or support from some company or similar to help support an event like this?
It needs a good number of entries not only to break even, but also to be a worthwhile and attractive race.

[SilverSurfer]

I don't think anyone would disagree that LV is the best water and where the British Open should be held each year.

However, I don't think the paddlers should be asked to subsidise the cost of running the event.  Where is the legacy of the Olympics if the cost of running the British Open wasn't factored into the commercial model.

I think the sad reality is, that the highs of the summer and the great performances of our team will soon be forgotten by the general public, and LV will return to what it always was, a rafting centre.

I just hope that we can secure funding from a sponsor to secure the running of the race and keep slalom alive at LV. 

Presumably the British Open will be run alongside the Premier Race.  If correct, how will the proposal of charging paddlers more to enter the British Open impact the standard entry of a Premier Race.

More facts and figures please if this is to be a genuine proposal.

[PeterC]

Unfortunately someone has to fund running the event and much as we would welcome it we have no sponsorship and no TV companies looking for broadcast rights. The Olympic legacy does not provide free electricity to run the pumps and pay for exclusive use of the site and we aso need to look after a significant number of volunteers to enable an event to happen. The figures have been shared with the Slalom Committee but should not really be published here. The ACM accepted last November that for some races there would need to be increased fees, this is one of those races that simply cannot run within standard fees. Each paddler effectively needs close to three minutes of exclusive water use for two runs including set up and demo time. Just running the pumps alone costs hundreds of pounds an hour.

We have in the past relied on rain and gravity to provide us with moving water. The extra cost of filtered consistent pumped water has to be met. Races must be planned to meet their costs, there is no pot of money to subsidise races.

If the paddlers should not as you suggest be meeting the cost of racing who should be? Before you say the BCU Slalom committee I would note they have no funds to do this and like everyone else are having to make savings on running costs.

The alternative if you consider the possible fees unacceptable is to not have any racing on the exclusively pumped courses like Lee Valley and Cardiff. Perhaps it should be considered in context in that the cost of entry fees even at a higher level is a relatively small proportion of the cost of travelling to a weekend event away from home.

[PeterC]

November is indeed likely to be cold and wet, much as I would prefer otherwise! However this is cheaper than mid season when we would be expected to compensate the centre for their significant loss of earnings to have exclusive use of the course.

By contrast one run down the course as a passenger in a raft will off peak cost you £49.

[TOG]

Any illumination on the finance models for artificial/pumped courses from other countries?

[SilverSurfer]

A single Prem is £18.50, and assuming the British Open is run at the same weekend, it would be classed as a double and therefore £29.75.

But you are proposing paddlers pay £40 to £45 to run the British Open at LV.

That's a big hike in price, and I guess many would consider entering the single Prem and not do the British Open.

My point about the Olympic legacy and for that matter Cardiff, is why there wasn't a greater input from our sporting bodies to secure one single weekend out of the whole year where we would have free access to the site to run a race.  Up front that cost could easily have been factored into any financial model.

In answer to your question who should pay if the paddlers don't and the Slalom committee don't.  There is no easy answer if a sponsor can not be found, but maybe we have to accept we are a minority sport, without sponsorship and therefore race at venues we can afford.

I agree having to exclude venues like Cardiff and LV on the grounds of cost is not good for the development of the sport, but neither is hiking up the prices for those two events. We need to be looking at long term solutions, not quick fixes, more focus needs to be given to securing sponsorship.  There must be someone within the sport with the right kind of experience and background to help in this area.

[PeterC]

The single Prem on the Saturday of the Open will not and indeed cannot have a standard entry fee. The ACM last November approved selected increase in race fees provided it was approved by the Slalom Committee. If we run at Lee Valley this as we noted will have to be one of these races. Even at the costs I have suggested there is likely to be a need for the Committee to subsidise the Open to some extent as that is squeezing the costs until the pips squeak. Effectively therefore other races would be cross funding it via the levy system.

The alternative is to take the race back to Nottingham but even there we face potential problems with water run off and pollution in the Trent at that time of year.

I am trying to get the cost of the Open for paddling on both days down to £45, even this is challenging! I can see no way of offering a significantly reduced cost for a Prem on the Saturday only entry at the moment I am afraid. Indeed in some ways it makes the problem worse if I have less paddlers on the Sunday as I still have to cover the same fixed costs.

Sponsorship would be lovely but there is a chicken and egg situation with media coverage. We now have managed to get some media interest in our racing at Tully and this has the potential to enable some sponsorship although minimal so far. Sponsors are far more interested in Olympic and International events than races such as the British Open. We are a little less popular than the football league!!!

There has been involvement to get both Cardiff and Lee Valley built in the first place however there is no ongoing funding to operate them and they are commercial operations. They both use very significant amounts of energy to operate and this has to be paid for. There are also costs in getting all the required volunteers there and working and for any race at this level we are looking at needing 40 plus of them to make it all work.

[boatmum]

Hi

Peter you said you wanted to poll views but from the discussion/Argument it would seem that the BCU slalom committee's mind is already made up and the price already set.

However I think sadly this is the reality of the situation high spec venues will cost significantly more. Scant consolation when you've forked out anything between £100 and £200 fuel and accommodation and food for the weekend depending on where you have travelled from to race.

While I agree £45 for around 10 minutes of racing (max) is hard to swallow other sports that use more sophisticated facilities charge similar if not more for their events- I'm thinking swimming and swimming pools here. They are and have been for some time charging around the £50 mark for entry to a gala - they have similar issues re hiring the facility.

If the cost is too high for most then I would suggest moving the Open back to HPP. It has served us well n the past we run selection races there so it must be of a required standard it is cheaper for competitors it is more central to reach. ThIs is assuming they would be prepared to let us use it still.

Can I ask has anyone actively tried securing sponsorship for the Canoe Slalom Open event at LV before the Olympic victories become a dim and distant past? I know raising sponsorship is hard work but I would be surprised given the venue location that no one wants to invest? I would have thought a company like Thames Water might be worth approaching if not done so already. While I agree there is probably little if no interest in terms of TV media coverage GB Canoeing and slalom have an online presence via twitter, Facebook etc which could be leveraged. Additionally utilities companies are I understand keen to engage with local communities where they operate - this would seem like a good event for them? Thames Water were the official water utilities service provider for the London games they also sponsor the 2013 water innovation awards - just a thought ...

[Nicky]

I understand the costs etc and understand where the numbers come from, but at £40 I will not be racing at the prem or British open. As a proportion of costs for a competitor, it is pretty low, but represents a significant increase for just one event. An event where access to train prior to the event is limited, so expectation of a good result is low.

Put me down to volunteer though, I'll judge for a couple of hours for my non ranking runs!

Things like this do concern me with the future of our sport. How much did it cost to host a race at town falls? How much at Tully? Serpents tail? Can some money be spent making town falls "safe" so that can be run for many years to come rather than spending another few thousand pounds on electric.

In terms of a suggestion for the future, could the remixer ranking season be run as a series and events are charged at a slightly higher rate, there should be scope to spread fees around a bit. Particularly if the are more natural rivers included in the series. In terms of running them collectively, I don't imagine that ownership of events is taken away from the clubs, but the levy structure could be tweaked to ensure that current revenues to organisers are increased slightly as I know that everyone is being squeezed at the moment, but at say £25 there should be some scope to subsidise "special events" if there was something similar done in div 1, with more races and competitors, there is scope to have a much bigger pot to redustribute and allow access for them to the likes of lee valley...

[PeterC]

Hi Boatmum

I absolutely do want discussion. The Slalom committee has not made up its mind except in so much that we have looked at a proposed budget and accepted that it cannot be run cost effectively at a standard fee at Lee Valley. We are still in discussion as to what our costs would be at LVWWC. I am actively looking at what else we can do to offset costs. There is no pot of money to subsidise it therefore I have to plan a budget that meets the costs.

If there is a consensus on what Nicky says and most will not pay to race, there is little point in trying to run it there and we need to move it somewhere else e.g. HPP. I do want to see the facility used and Nicky there are ways we can get you on before hand for practice on the site during the week which I accept is less than ideal for many.

If we don not get racing on there this year we face a danger that it becomes a rafting centre and forgets its slalom heritage.

We are always looking for sponsorship however the continued failure does not give us much rationale to hope for change. We would also want a big entry and top paddlers to make it attractive, not something within my control.

[PeteWillett]

I understand the cost is high, but I would pay £40-£45 to race the Lee Valley. If we don't use the site then we will lose it as slalom venue. I hope we can find a way to reduce the cost through sponsors.

Cheers
Pete

[PeterC]

The cost of entering national open races elsewhere was asked. The US Open last year was 55 dollars US (£38) and the Australian in Penrith in February was 85 dollars Aus (£56).

[Nicky]

The questions I'd have are, how many people raced and did they get anything else for their money?

[Flyhigh3]

there is an attraction because the race provides the focus to get down, and living where we do we are less likely get down otherwise (same with Cardiff) and so would miss out on the valuable experience (and because I book the travelodges months in advance to get them cheap, so we may well be going there wherever it is held or moves to!)... . Certainly access to water beforehand for even one practice session and having the top paddlers there is important to make it a good, satisfying and worthwhile race. (The HPP race next weekend start list looks a little disappointing with only 36 prems and several of the top ten missing).
Did any of the other aspects of the selection day make any money? Liked the suggestion of approaching Thames Water or even the electricity company...Northumbrian Water up here sponsor a few running events round their dam.