GRANDTULLY DIV 1 AUGUST 27-28 2016

[Kelso]

PRELIMINARY INFORMATION January 22 2016
from Kelso Riddell

PLEASE READ POINT 3. And tell your friends...

Alistair is busy working in Cuba, so I am processing entries for August Grandtully again...

Seven months to go, and we have started to receive entries for this event.

A first scan of the mail indicates that I need to clarify a few points.
I am sorry if anybody is offended; I had a tedious job correcting entries last year and am no longer prepared to spend extra time sorting out those who cannot get it right.

1. PAYMENT ( let's get it right)
Make cheques payable to "FORTH CANOE CLUB".
Please take the trouble to write very clearly, as cheques are now passed into a machine for registering.
If the machine cannot read the cheque, it is rejected and I have to spend forever in a queue to present it to a human teller.
Please do not send any entry with a post-dated cheque... Or an un-dated cheque... Or an un-signed cheque.
All cheques will be presented to our bank on receipt, like any normal business.
last year our bank accepted all cheques that were post-dated for immediate processing.
If your cheque is refused by your bank due to lack of funds, I will simply invalidate the entry.
You may only discover this when the Start List is published, and then require to make a Late Entry, at additional cost to you, and more processing for me.
So if you do not have the money to pay, please wait until you do.

2. CORRESPONDENCE (I cannot read your email address!)
NICE CLEAR BLOCK CAPITAL LETTERS ARE GREAT !
If there is a problem with your entry and I cannot read your email address on the card,
I will not bother to try to reach you by contacting your club secretary, or "going round the houses".
WRITE IT CLEARLY SO I CAN READ IT, or risk being ignored.
The entry card does not have much space... If you are not sure, write it on a separate slip of paper.
If I am unable to correspond easily with you, I will not bother... see 1 above.

3. MEMBERSHIP VALIDATION (This is a pain... for me and for you...) (Carry your union card - Don't leave home without it!)
Due to an incident last year caused by invalid membership, I will require validation of all participants' membership as at the date of our event.
This means that I will require to see proof that you are a member of BC, SCA, CANI or WCA until at least 28 August 2016.
You may do this by sending a copy of your membership card with a suitably long date along with your entry, or bring it to Grandtully before the event for me to see.
If your membership has lapsed when I see your card or it will be invalid on race day, you will have to take out Day membership of the SCA and pay cash on site.
If we do not have proof that you are not a current member on race day, you will not race.
The Start List will indicate whether your membership has been pre-validated.

4. CANCELLATION (Are you committed ?)
Do not send in an entry and expect me to refund your entry fee just because you changed your holiday plans at the last minute.
This year I will only process a cancellation and refund fees if there is a very good reason.
Forces transfers, injury, promotion to a higher division etc. are perfectly reasonable
Last minute change of your holiday plans are not... (Alistair and I would like to be drinking mojitos on the Malecon in Havana too!)

A special message for Alistair -
Bring me a bottle of Mulata please... for the Judges Prize! Or another Che tee shirt...

[Sven]

I was under the impression that under the new rules an organiser cannot bank cheques received until a week before the event

[Kelso]

Hello Sven
I am sorry if this upsets you.
It has been my club's procedure since 1934 to try to operate in a businesslike manner, and present all payments to our bank as soon as received.
In the last few years I have received invalid cheques and cheques which have bounced, and this has caused inconvenience and bad feeling on site...
(Try entering the London Marathon with a post-dated cheque!)

If someone does not want his entry payment to be processed, he should not submit it until he is ready to pay.
I am not prepared to hold cheques and entry cards in storage and unprocessed for months, only to find a cheque is rejected when submitted.
Nor do I wish to risk mis-laying an entry.
And as back-up, I leave each processing session with clear filing/recording and all entries dealt with, so that someone else can take over in case something happens to me.
So I deal with it immediately.

I would prefer not to deal with cheques or entry forms at all.
The present system is tedious and subject to error.

I would like to see an on-line system where
- competitors may log-in
- the latest ranking list is linked to an event entry form
- the system is linked to all NGB membership lists to verify valid membership / age etc. at race date
- Risk acceptance / Parental consent etc is handled by the system
- payment is made by electronic transfer to the organisers bank account.
Paypal, credit or debit card including AMEX all accepted
- the system produces a receipt
- Late entries are accepted etc...
- the system produces a Start List for the event organiser

However at present I am continuing to process entries for our event in the same professional manner as I have always tried to maintain.

best...
Kelso Riddell

[Sven]

Your post has not upset me in the slightest, but I thought there had been a new rule made with regard to the banking of event entry fees, however I cant see one - maybe it was just discussed.

You talk about the banking of cheques in your first post as being,

"like any normal business"

but I submit to you the organising and running of a slalom event is not a commercial business.

I think I am correct in thinking that yours is the only event in the UK slalom annual calendar that does this and that should tell you something.

Consider those families where maybe there are 4 paddlers who compete in a div 1 race. what would happen if all organisers banked their cheques at the same time? I am sure you would say well that is their look out and so they should enter nearer the race date BUT with races filling up months in advance that would appear no longer to be an option.

Happily the other race organisers are more flexible and while I am certain your focus is on the event making a profit, other organisers appear to have taken more thought over this matter for the benefit of the sport overall.

To reiterate I am not upset about what you are doing but rather trying to present another possible option you may wish to consider - for the good of the sport.

[Jem]

If indeed running an event was like running a business, then one might hope that those running the business would care about customer satisfaction and treat their paddlers as customers rather than irritants.

If any business lectured me on race entries and told me how to enter a race, I would take my business elsewhere!

If running an event was like running a business, then the boss would pay those for the work they do to run the event e.g. judges.

Any when I last looked, the BSU/SCA card was not an identity card and didn't need to be carried with you at all times!

[Dee]

I would like to see an on-line system where
- competitors may log-in
- the latest ranking list is linked to an event entry form
- the system is linked to all NGB membership lists to verify valid membership / age etc. at race date
- Risk acceptance / Parental consent etc is handled by the system
- payment is made by electronic transfer to the organisers bank account.
Paypal, credit or debit card including AMEX all accepted
- the system produces a receipt
- Late entries are accepted etc...
- the system produces a Start List for the event organiser

best...
Kelso Riddell

You might be interested in the system we've created for Shepperton this year with a view to rolling it out to other clubs later this year/in time for next
Competitors log in
Linked to ranking database
Given the paddlers division/class they can enter appropriate events
Entry limits set and paddlers can enter waiting list
Late fees charged where appropriate
Credit and debit cards accepted (not pay pal though)
Receipt sent by email
Will create start list (under development)

At the moment we are working on the basis that a paddler must have bcu (etc) membership and sign consent to obtain bib, but open to further ideas if we need to take this a step further

[Canadian Paddler]

1. PAYMENT
At the end of the 2015 ACM there was discussion about payment, payment options and working practice. This was a discussion, so did not (and could not) include any rule changes. There may be some confusion in the slalom fraternity about this, so I have included this statement to help reduce the comments. The general tenor of the discussion was that organisers should follow the Slalom Handbook which says:

Pass cheques and cash to your Treasurer, or bank them yourself so that they have been cleared (or “bounced”) before the event. In order to simplify the reconciliation of accounts, a separate bank account may be opened for the event.

The general feeling was, however, that cashing cheques two weeks before the event allows the organiser time to identify any bad cheques, and take appropriate action, whilst allowing paddlers to use their own money for the period between entry and the event. I repeat that this was NOT legislated, so your approach does match the letter of the rules and recommendations, if not the spirit.

2. CORRESPONDENCE
I am sorry to hear that you are unable to make out the email addresses on the majority of entries. This is at direct odds with my experience of the email addresses for the April Lee Valley Premier event, where all written email addresses could be read. I have been taking the extra fifteen seconds to email each batch of entries that I have their entry using these email addresses. The only returns I got were where I had mistyped the email address. This approach means that I have verified email addresses for all entrants who provided one (only 2 did not). It also means that those who have sent incorrect money, or a faulty entry in some other way, have been notified, so will not be surprised if they do not have an entry.
The Slalom Rules include:

UKC12.3.2 The Organiser must return rejected entries promptly

Prompt return should include (In my opinion) at least 2 attempts to contact the individual – their email address and their clubs e-mail address if that fails or is not provided, these addresses are readily available in the yearbook, so do not take long to find.

3. MEMBERSHIP VALIDATION
UK Slalom rules.

UK C3.1.1 All Competitors, at the time of entry, must quote their current National Association number. All Competitors must be paid up members of one of the National Associations both at the date of entry and of the event for every competition they enter.

There is no problem with this, and I assume, that this is the rule on which you are basing your proposal.

UK C3.1.2 Ranked Competitors in all divisions, except Division 4, must prove membership of a National Association by sending a copy of their membership cards when applying for their competition bib. When membership for a Competitor expires, the onus is on the Competitor to prove membership to the relevant Ranking Compiler(s) to ensure that results from all events are counted for ranking, promotion and/or selection purposes. Failure to comply with this procedure will result in disqualification of relevant results.

This rule specifies how a competitor proves membership. Note that there is no requirement to send copies of cards to organisers, this is required just once, at collection of their bib.

UK C3.1.3Newly promoted Competitors, or others arriving without bibs (for whatever reason) must prove membership of their National Association by showing their current membership card to the Organiser (or an appointed deputy).

This rules lays out the ONLY people that you can insist on seeing their National Association membership cards.

UKC12.2 The Organiser must accept all entries which are correctly made and received by the closing date unless the published limit for the event has been reached.

There is no leeway in this statement, if you are running a UK national slalom all valid entries MUST be accepted, you cannot introduce new terms for accepting the entries..

UK C3.1.7 If the membership card cannot be produced then membership must be purchased at the event. Receipts for such membership must be issued and remain valid for competition for four weeks from date of issue. (Competitors who have to obtain duplicate membership will be refunded the amount paid less £1 by the National Association.)

This rules gives the conditions for not being able to prove membership. ‘Taster’ or day membership is not valid for competition at this level. Full National Association membership has to be proved by those without a bib, and attracts a refund of all except £1 for duplicate membership.
If Forth Canoe Club, as a club, wish these rules changed, then they are welcome to put motions to the ACM to take effect in 2017. But the 2016 rules must be used for the 2016 event

Summary: Any paddler entering who has a bib must be allowed to compete without further proof of membership. Deviation from this UK standard risks the event being de ranked. Effectively cancelling the ranking event and requiring refunds for those who do not wish to travel to a non-ranking Scottish local event.

4. CANCELLATION
Back to the Rules

UK C11.6.2 ENTRY FEES ARE NOT RETURNABLE - except:
- where a Competitor is promoted to a higher division and is thus ineligible to compete at an event already entered. The entry fees will be refunded providing the Organiser is notified AT LEAST FIVE DAYS before the event.
- if an event is cancelled prior to the publication of a start list or on or before the Saturday of the immediately preceding weekend, whichever is the earlier.
- if an event is cancelled due to circumstances beyond the control of Organiser, up to the time that the course is declared open for free practice, (official practice for Premier/Division 1)

Your approach is completely in line with the rules.

For the avoidance of confusion, Canadian Paddler is Colin Woodgate, Hon Secretary of The British Canoeing Slalom Committee, and this is a rare posting in that role.

[Kelso]

As at 11 February, the Start List for Grandtully DIv 1 August 27-28 is 50 % full.

All entries received to date have been processed.

[Kelso]

Following discussion at a recent meeting of the BC Slalom Committee, I have received a letter whose text is below.

As a result, we will not be verifying membership validity at August Grandtully Div 1 competition.

I have been advised that posting on this chat line is what is expected as public confirmation that we will be abiding by the committee's interpretation of the rules.

Kelso Riddell
For Forth Canoe Club

Long Acre
121 Coates Road
Eastrea
Whittlesey
PETERBOROUGH
PE7 2BD
29 February 2016

Kelso Riddell,
c/o Alistair Riddell,
35a Polwarth Terrace,
EDINBURGH
EH11 1NL

Dear Kelso

At the British Canoeing UK Slalom Committee meeting yesterday we discussed the postings you have
made regarding the running of a division 1/2 Slalom at Grandtully in August.

The meeting instructed me to write to you for a public confirmation that you will run the competition to
the UK slalom rules. In particular rules UK C3.1.1, UK C3.1.2, UK C3.1.3, UKC12.2, and UK C3.1.7
These rules specify that any paddler who has a national ranking bib has already proved their membership
of a National Association and does not need to prove membership further at any event. Any paddler
without a bib must either show their National Association card or purchase membership from control on
the day.

The meeting was unanimous that if such public confirmation is not made, the event will be de-ranked
under rule D1.6. The event then ceases to become a ranking event and all entries received are refundable
on demand.

Please confirm the actions you intend to take as a result of this letter

Yours Sincerely
Colin Woodgate
Hon Secretary
British Canoeing UK Slalom Committee.

[Seedy Paddler]

An interesting post and declaration-

British Canoeing is a Company Limited by Guarantee with operating responsibility discharged from Board through CEO to advisory committees with set remit. It is a requirement and policy of BC that participants at competitive events be member of BC or other recognised Home Country NGB. A policy that is incorporated and discharged through Rule UK C3.1.1. NB BC Slalom is mandated to enforce said rule.

It is known that during 2015 there were a number of slalom participants at events in Scotland where participants had allowed their membership to lapse yet continued to race at events. Kelso as a SCA Board Member was aware of this and as an Event organiser sought to ensure that the mandatory requirements were met. This has been refused by BC Slalom with a threat to the Ranking status of the event and a requirement to refund entries should he challenge BC Slalom ruling.

All fair enough, but Kelso is aware that he could have un-insured racers, sought to undertake reasonable mitigation and has been firmly rebuffed by BC Slalom. Hence under Duty of Care the Organiser has endeavoured to meet his obligations and been overruled by the authorising Body - i.e. BC Slalom. So the obligation moves up a level to the authorising body. Hopefully the chances of an incident involving a lapsed member are fairly slim, but Kelso you are off the hook as the responsible person to defend their actions has now publicly been moved onto the Chair of BC Slalom, as they say with authority comes responsibility !

[djberriman]

--deleted--

[djberriman]

Same problem in polo

[JimW]

I think it is useful that Kelso has got this out in the open, however; only the people that know exactly what arrancement BC have with the insurance company can say whether this is an actual problem or not.

Insurance is complex, rolling insurance is even more complex.

If the insurers have reviewed and approved the bib policy we use, this may not be a problem at all? Who would know that?

[Toomuchtooyoung]

Whole thing handled very poorly. It was pretty obvious there were reasons for the organisers putting in an extra process, thanks seedy paddler for the explanation. People should have gotten off their high horse and understood what the issue is, rather than send a public rebuke. No one volunteers to organise races or go on committees to make life difficult, just talk to each other without assumptions or accusations, it takes communication to resolve issues and this so clearly is one.
Thank you everyone who is trying to make slalom racing, fun, fair and importantly safe.

[Kelso]

As at 6 June I have processed all entries received to date.

There are still some 40 places available.

Kelso Riddell