Prem and Div 1 races

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CeeBee
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:12 pm
Location: Falkirk

Prem and Div 1 races

Post by CeeBee » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:48 pm

Following on from CPs comments re motions we are considering what motions to propose for the ACM

In 2017, there were 9 premier races as follows - 2 doubles (Tryweryn and Grandtully), 3 singles combined with a Div 1 (Teeside and 2 xHPP) , 1 single (Cardif) and 1 single combine with the British Open (LVV)

There are more than double the number of Div 1 races - , 20 Division 1 races as follows - 8 doubles (Pinkston, Llandysul x 2, Chapel Falls, Grandtully x 2 , Shepperton, Washburn), 3 singles combined with a Prem (Teeside and 2 x HPP) and 1 single combined with a Div 2 (HPP)

This seems rather imbalanced , particularly when Div 1 paddlers can also Paddle Up in Prem.

These races take up 16 weekends in the calendar and to enable other events to run and for the timing team/section judges to have no increase in workload, I wouldn't propose that the number of weekends increases. Would paddlers favour an increase in Prem races by say 2-4 with a corresponding reduction in Div 1 races? Could Washburn be run as Prem occasionally?

Would Prem paddlers favour more double events to make events more attractive and cost effective to attend?

One of the things I have observed this year is that when a Prem race is running on the Saturday with the Div 1 on the Sunday, only a few of the early Paddle Ups get a race on the Saturday at the prem race giving them an advantage going into the Sunday Div 1 race. Also, premier paddlers who enter within 4 weeks are below the Paddle Ups on the waiting list. Would paddler favour this rule changing so that for paddlers on the waiting list, Host Division paddlers are above PU paddlers
Last edited by CeeBee on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Monty
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:15 pm

Re: Prem and Div 1 races

Post by Monty » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:14 pm

The idea of more double Prem races is for me very appealing indeed given the travel distances involved and associated family logistical/accommodation costs. Until the number of Div 1's was kindly specified in the previous posting, I was blissfully unaware of the disparity. The opportunity of increasing the number of Prem races would also be very well received at this end, given final rankings are based on your five best totals.

Given many of the courses are only visited and paddled on the day of the race, at least two days would give a chance to get more of a feel for the water during racing on the first day. Thank you for starting the discussion. :D

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Prem and Div 1 races

Post by Dee » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:45 pm

I can't see this going down well with div 1 paddlers who also want more races!

There have been 9 prems for as long as I can remember and I think the reasoning is that Prems will be preparing and aiming to peak for each race.

The other difficulty I can see with redistribution is that it would mean "stealing" a couple of the more challenging races from div 1, which again will be far from popular.

On the doubles vs singles, maybe the two P/1 HPP races could become one double prem and one double div 1, thereby increasing number of doubles but at least one of those P/1s usually has a final in the Sunday I think, so this would be lost. Further, these P/1 races give div 1 paddlers the chance to watch and learn from Prem. (similarly with div 1/2). This must surely add to the development of up and coming paddlers.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Prem and Div 1 races

Post by Dee » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:56 pm

CeeBee wrote:Also, premier paddlers who enter within 4 weeks are below the Paddle Ups on the waiting list. Would paddler favour this rule changing so that for paddlers on the waiting list, Host Division paddlers are above PU paddlers
I'd fight this. I just can't see it working properly - I think it's much more complicated than it sounds (this is with my organiser hat on as well as online entries). Available places at the end of priority period do need to go to paddle ups and tracking the position at precisely that moment is a bit demanding!

Having said that - I think that anyone who is promoted after the priority entry date should be treated as though they entered before the end of the priority period, thus allowing them to jump the queue.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Mike Mitchell
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Prem and Div 1 races

Post by Mike Mitchell » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:22 pm

Having said that - I think that anyone who is promoted after the priority entry date should be treated as though they entered before the end of the priority period, thus allowing them to jump the queue.[/quote]


I agree with this and think promoted paddlers should be guaranteed entry at there new Division.
It takes a week to get your new Bib after promotion and you can't enter until thats been updated on the system.

Dee
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Prem and Div 1 races

Post by Dee » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:52 pm

Mike Mitchell wrote:Having said that - I think that anyone who is promoted after the priority entry date should be treated as though they entered before the end of the priority period, thus allowing them to jump the queue.

I agree with this and think promoted paddlers should be guaranteed entry at there new Division.
It takes a week to get your new Bib after promotion and you can't enter until thats been updated on the system.[/quote]

Not strictly true as you can still enter by post.

Added to which the plan is that next year new bib numbers will be allocated by the ranking database when the results are loaded up so we are talking a couple of days before you can enter online.

The downside to my comment is that it will mean newly promoted paddlers will leapfrog, not only paddleups but also any host paddlers who missed the priority deadline.

I think it unrealistic to guarantee entry but we can substantially improve the odds
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

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