HPP Div 1 & 2

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davebrads
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HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by davebrads » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:54 pm

The closing date for this race is a little over a week away. Obviously the division 1 entry is over subscribed, but we could do with some more division 2 entries.

This is an opportunity for division 2 paddlers to race on Holme Pierrepont. This cannot normally be achieved due to the high cost of hiring the venue, but by combining with a division 1 event and the enhanced entry fee we can make it viable. I can assure you that we aren't making big bucks on this race.

There is no point in continuing to run the race unless division 2 paddlers show that they want to race there by getting their entries in. I can assure you that the course will be designed to be as friendly as possible to the first-timer on this course, I am sure that the water will be challenge enough without hard sequences or gates in tricky places.

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by JimW » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:03 pm

This was my favourite race last year, I highly reccommend it and would really hate to see it fall by the wayside if there is not enough interest.

Racing as official in the div 1 I got 5 50's on each run, but in the div 2 I only had 1 50 on 1 run, Dave's team definitely know how to create a more flowing div 2 suitable course.

harratts
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by harratts » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 pm

I would love to enter the Div.2 race Dave but under the current rules as a Prem. / Div.1 K1 Men's Vet I am unable to do so.

Perhaps next year if a proposal to change the way Vet.'s can enter races gets put forward and is approved I will be able to do so.

Steve

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by JimW » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:33 am

harratts wrote:I would love to enter the Div.2 race Dave but under the current rules as a Prem. / Div.1 K1 Men's Vet I am unable to do so.
But you could enter in C2, one of your crews is still div 2/3 and you could form a new div 2/3 crew... :D

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by Nick Taylor » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:22 am

davebrads wrote:The closing date for this race is a little over a week away. Obviously the division 1 entry is over subscribed, but we could do with some more division 2 entries.

This is an opportunity for division 2 paddlers to race on Holme Pierrepont. This cannot normally be achieved due to the high cost of hiring the venue, but by combining with a division 1 event and the enhanced entry fee we can make it viable. I can assure you that we aren't making big bucks on this race.
Thanks & kudos to you Dave for making this Div 2 race happen. I love it & want it to stay on the calendar so have challenged my fellow Viking slalomistas to come & join me

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davebrads
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by davebrads » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:55 am

The trophies have arrived
Image

lesf
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by lesf » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:19 pm

I would love to enter the Div.2 race Dave but under the current rules as a Prem. / Div.1 K1 Men's Vet I am unable to do so.
Steve - not quite so - see rule B5.7.1 - vets can enter an event at ta level lower than they are declared at but don't get any points.

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by Canadian Paddler » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:30 pm

But B5.2.5 says
A Veteran ranked in Premier/1 is eligible to compete in Premier, Division 1 or Championship events, and will be awarded ranking points and be eligible for prizes
Implication - can't paddle at div 2/3. Especially as there is an explicit permission for div 2 to paddle at div 3 events just above. Another apparent contradiction in the rules (rats!).

Safest would be to enter the officials event, I am sure Steve will be helping anyway.

I will leave the interpretation of the contradictory rules to the organiser and not disagree on the day.
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Steve Agar
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by Steve Agar » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:45 pm

On the other had I would interpret Rule 5.2.5 as the Vet being eligible to compete at those P/1 events (by right) and can get points and prizes, but the rule does not exclude competing at other events (which it would if the wording said "is ONLY eligible...". Rule 5.7.1 takes the clarification further by saying that Vets can compete at lower division events and get prizes but not points (the determination of who wins what prize being up to the Organiser presumably).

Get your entries in and support the event!

lesf
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by lesf » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:24 pm

I concur with Steve's interpretation of the rules, and may take advantage when I'm old enough !

Dee
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by Dee » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:32 pm

I think this could turn into another Vets thread :roll: :D

We could do with some more div 2 (and 3) entries for Sheppy too. Maybe div 2s have decided that late October is just too wet and cold for paddling.
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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by JimW » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:07 pm

Dee wrote:I think this could turn into another Vets thread :roll: :D

We could do with some more div 2 (and 3) entries for Sheppy too. Maybe div 2s have decided that late October is just too wet and cold for paddling.
Apart from being at the wrong end of the country you clash with Scottish Champs, which is completely open so there are no points, just trophies :)

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by davebrads » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:01 pm

The start list should now be visible at https://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk/ye ... start-list

It might be adjusted slightly before the race, but the general format will remain the same.

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Re: HPP Div 1 & 2

Post by JimW » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Thanks for running this race again Dave and Manchester CC.

My opinion that the HPP div 2 is the best race on the div 2 calendar (am I supposed to say that about our div 2?) is just as strong as ever.
I consider it a really important stepping stone between the relatively flat water div 2s and typical div 1 races.
It does favour the older, stronger, more experienced paddlers BUT mainly because most younger paddlers have not prepared for it (and I appreciate some won't have access to suitable rapids to prepare for it). There were 3 J12's in the top 6 so it is not impossible for younger/smaller paddlers.

Anyone who attended both the div 1 and div 2 will have been aware of how much difference in difficulty the course designers managed to incorporate using the same number of gates over the same length of the course.

Basically in the div 2 we didn't have to side surf any stoppers (actually some div 1s proved that their course could be done without side surfing but most had to), most crosses were from one bank to middle rather than one bank to opposite bank and there were no places where we needed to spin the boat 180 degrees between downstream staggers. We had the same number of gates and start and finish were in the same place, but the gates lead around the most intimidating features where the div 1s were encouraged to tackle them full on. I raced as official in the div 1, and by gate 12 I was out of energy and as badly out of breath as I was at the finish line in the div 2.
Neither course was an easy touch and there were plenty of 50s and swims in both divisions - I suspect most were due to fear rather than actual inability to make the moves and thats where I will come to the point...

Any div 2 aspiring to get promoted should be seeking out races like the HPP div 2 as a stepping stone to div 1 - if you think the HPP div 2 is too hard for you, how do you think you are going to find div 1? We all need races like this and for them to continue in the future we need to enter them otherwise the organisers may have to withdraw them. Please enter next year, even if you are a bit scared - I could sense the confidence of other paddlers growing throughout the day, and last year was the same, I'm pretty sure everyone that entered has gained something from it, even if they don't realise yet.

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