Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

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Flipper
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Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Flipper » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:20 pm

Slalom has slowly ebbed away in our regions (London/S/SE/SW) in spite of the almost heroic efforts of a small band of committed volunteers. There is lots of discussion on the Canoe Slalom website about refining the sport’s structure, but it seems that while this is all valid for higher div paddlers already engaged in the sport, it doesn’t address the urgent need to have a calendar in place that attracts new entrants and gets them started. That is, Divs 4 and 3. Without this feed from the base of the pyramid the whole thing will gently wither away. And without a reasonable number of locally accessible events across the whole season we can’t expect to hook in newcomers.

I don’t know what the answers are, but I do sense that we need an action plan p.d.q. or the Olympic legacy will just be wishful thinking. And we do need to consider a radical re-design of the sport to make it more accessible, more attractive to youngsters and their non-paddling parents, and easier for non-expert volunteers to run.

Comments please, and constructive ideas on how we can move forward. For sure the current format isn't working well enough for slalom to survive down here.

Terryg
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Terryg » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:12 am

Fully agree. The number of events in the south has been falling rapidly for years, not helped by slalom committee policies.

In order to get more people involved, I would think that easy to run short course slaloms are the way to go for Div 4, followed by full length courses for Div 3.

The short course event could be done in any boat (provided not dangerous), and a team event could follow, to fill out the day and bring in extra revenue. The emphasis should be on fun.

Flipper
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Flipper » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:36 pm

Terry:
At the SE Region ACM yesterday there was a prolonged discussion on this with Adur, Hastings, Tandridge and Shepperton all pitching in. Our thoughts are pretty much in line with yours, with further proposals to make the rigging of D4 events much simpler and the event more in tune with the J12s and J10s entering the sport nowadays (i.e. more emphasis on fun!). I've agreed to put together a brief document on our thoughts, the general view is that we are now below critical mass so the sport could now drop away very quickly, say in a year or two. We are just focussing on the situation in the southern regions, t-b-h I expect other parts of the UK will have different probs/opportunities, and different solutions and priorities. There may well be a need for the sport to allow more latitude in the way D4 events are run. A a separate but related issue the SE Region is also trying to head off the potential loss of the Yalding site which would leave us with just Shepperton.

John Sturgess
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by John Sturgess » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:34 pm

So what has happened in the Greater South (LSE, S, SW, southern part of E) and what can be done to reverse it?

• Of the five strongest clubs in the Greater South 5 years ago, one has ceased to exist as a junior slalom club; two lost over 50% of their numbers just between 2011 and 2012; and two do not get more than a few of their paddlers to do 9+ races.
• Get two clubs to follow the ‘strong club’ policies below, and within five years you will more than stabilise the situation. Create five or six clubs like that, and you will dominate Great Britain within six/seven years. And incidentally the sport as a whole will have grown by 40%.

This has been a matter for frequent discussion in slalom over the past twenty years, of the sort seen in this thread. Two sorts of solution are commonly discussed: getting more people to try slalom (TV coverage; the Coaching Scheme; non-slalom canoe clubs; the Olympics); and making entry-level slaloms more attractive (fun events; provision of coaching; a greater choice of more conveniently-located events).

However if difficulty in persuading people were the problem - conversion rates – then everybody would have the same problem; and if event quality or location were the problem, then some events would have consistently better conversion rates than others: but there is no evidence of that.

There is only one factor that consistently predicts the likelihood of someone trying out slalom becoming committed to the sport: what club they belong to. 88 clubs entered junior paddlers in Div 4 events in 2012. 61 of them had conversion rates of 0%: none of their paddlers did more than 3 races. In the ‘Greater South’ the figure was 19 clubs out of 25 with conversion rates of 0%. Only 3 new junior paddlers – all J10’s - did 9+ events, with 11 doing 4-8 races. Meanwhile there are 4 clubs in Great Britain that consistently achieve conversion rates of 70%+. See below for how they do it.

Historically paddlers who paddle 9 or more races in a season tend to stay and improve; paddlers who paddle 4 - 8 races in a season do not improve much and do not stay in the sport for very long; paddlers who paddle 3 or less races in a year either do not come back then next year, or paddle 3 or less races for another year or two before dropping out. The exception is those paddlers who paddle their first event late in the season; if they are members of ‘strong’ clubs (see below) they frequently do come back the next year - and paddle 9+ races. I refer to paddlers who paddle 9+ races as ‘Core’ paddlers, and paddlers who paddle 4-8 races as ‘occasional’ paddlers.

The sport’s ‘conversion rate’ - starting Div 4 paddlers who go on to become Core paddlers - is 4.8%, which does not at the moment bring in enough paddlers to balance out natural wastage: 110 junior paddlers ranked in Divs Prem-3 at the end of 2011 did not paddle in 2012. Even if we assume that new ‘occasional’ paddlers will all paddle next year - and 50% is more likely - there is still a shortfall. We obviously need a 27% conversion rate to maintain junior numbers: or 2000+ paddlers trying out slalom each year!.

So what do the above 4 ‘strong’ clubs have in common?
• A proper coaching structure: paddlers attend the same coaching group, with the same coach, each week. So a sporting occasion is also a social occasion.
• The club puts pressure on paddlers (or rather, their parents) to go to a reasonable number of races: in fact in some clubs it is a condition of membership of coaching groups (see Breadalbane CC website).
• They go to the same events, usually with coaching support: so again a sporting occasion is also a social occasion.
• They have targeted recruitment policies, usually focussing on particular schools or groups of schools, so that they achieve critical mass within each starting cohort.
• They now have critical mass within their junior sections as a whole, so that paddlers can change groups as they develop at different rates (but NB this is an outcome rather than a method: three of the four top clubs, and several of the second tier, either did not exist five years ago, or did not exist as slalom clubs).

The remaining 6 clubs in the British Top Ten display some, but not all, of the features above.

The effect of the above on the sport as a whole?
• The Top Ten Clubs have 62% of all the Core junior paddlers in Great Britain; just the top 4 Clubs have 42%.
• The Core junior paddlers of the Top Ten made up 60% of all Div Prem-3 slalom entries: just the top 4 clubs accounted for 37%.

This a problem – and these are the solutions – that apply across the whole of sport. Obviously in team sports in particular: if as a Football Club you only have 8 Under-14’s you cannot field a team, so they leave. But I work with successful clubs in individual sports – athletics, tennis, gymnastics, swimming – which apply the same solutions to the same problems.

Dee
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Dee » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:31 pm

So what do the above 4 ‘strong’ clubs have in common?
• A proper coaching structure: paddlers attend the same coaching group, with the same coach, each week. So a sporting occasion is also a social occasion.
• The club puts pressure on paddlers (or rather, their parents) to go to a reasonable number of races: in fact in some clubs it is a condition of membership of coaching groups (see Breadalbane CC website).
• They go to the same events, usually with coaching support: so again a sporting occasion is also a social occasion.
• They have targeted recruitment policies, usually focussing on particular schools or groups of schools, so that they achieve critical mass within each starting cohort.
• They now have critical mass within their junior sections as a whole, so that paddlers can change groups as they develop at different rates (but NB this is an outcome rather than a method: three of the four top clubs, and several of the second tier, either did not exist five years ago, or did not exist as slalom clubs).
I understand where you are coming from but:
- Proper coaching structure requires several volunteer coaches and someone to co-ordinate. This seems to be harder to achieve in the South, I'm not sure why but I think it may be to do with lifestyles. On average I think that those in the SE, at least, travel further and longer to get to work which makes it harder to do much if anything mid-week. Judging by some of our older friends there is also a greater tendency to move away at retirement, just when they might have the time to engage! Obviously I'm talking generalities here, but I think there is some truth. Further, the South East has struggled for slalom clubs for a long time so there isn't a critical mass pool of ex paddlers who are possible coaches to draw from.

- Reasonable number of race attendances can only be achieved if there are a reasonable number of races within a reasonable distance. No doubt everyone has a different concept of "reasonable", but there are more races accessible further North so which ever way you look at it this is an easier requirement in the North.

- Is there also an element of competition between types of kayaking. Certainly in our area I would expect a fair number of youngsters to head for playboating (all those Thames Weirs), marathon (lots of flat water).
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John Sturgess
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by John Sturgess » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:15 pm

Dee

On coaches: the model that works across sport - certainly in all the sports I work with - is that the major source of coaches is the parents of the children you recruit: after all, they have to bring their children and take them away. Then you 'just' need some training and mentoring - and a system of coach training/qualification designed for their needs, which slalom used to have.

On travelling distance: three of the clubs that are best at getting their paddlers to a lot of slaloms are Aberdeen, Breadalbane, and Llandysul: which could all be described as fairly remote from a good supply of events. The Breadalbane membership conditions that I mention talk of attending all the slaloms in their division in Scotland! (Aberdeen to Selkirk 174 miles ...)

Flipper
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Flipper » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:09 pm

John
The "Greater South"s share of Div 4 newbies, at 26%, isn't a mile away from what you might expect given the population. After that things accelerate away from us, looks like our share of D4-3 promotions is around 15%, D3-2 is 10%, D2-1 is 5%, D1-Prem is.... nil.
I fear things have drifted further away from us than many people realise. Dee has hit the nail on the head. We now have too few willing volunteers with personal experience of the sport to coach or to run events. We can pretty much count on one hand the number of committed volunteers with experience at D1 or above. That's too few to run a season. So the local calendar is slipping away from us, each time one of these calls "Enough!" there's no-one to step into the breach so the event folds or the coaching session stops.
The obvious way forward is to make the running of events much easier for the incoming parents who haven't yet developed the same level of enthusiam and commitment, reducing the burden on the remaining few who know it (perhaps they would then commit to more mentoring and coaching instead?)

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:51 am

Seems like it is all the fault of those b****ds on the committee?

There are elections this weekend, and space on the committee as Ken is standing down after a long time. YOU can be nominated to get elected and put the world right / participate in trying to keep the sport going.

Seriously, focus and experience of the trials and tribulations of lower divisions, is welcome. Some of the committee have had children going through these divisions recently, at least one still helps run a div 3/4. But we need to keep the grass roots. Just get yourself nominated (club reps can do this, and I am sure you can find contact details for a Proteus member that has influence with their rep.... 8) .) If you can not be there, at least let people know you are interested, and see what happens.
:D
<Sarcasm mode on>
Have to be ready to give up more time, and take people second guessing you though :twisted: and it is easier to complain and do nothing...
<Sarcasm mode off>
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Dee
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Dee » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Calm down CP :o

I don't think there is anyone on this thread saying that we blame the committee. It is more a concern that the numbers of people with experience/willingness in the South is so small that there is truly a danger of it fading to nothing.

Flipper

Whilst I'm all for encouraging parents to take up the challenge of running events; it won't necessarily result in existing event organisers moving across to coaching. They require a different skill set and different type of commitment. I know there are people out there who do both, but I know that although I can cope with organising an event (anyone who wishes to disagree is welcome to take on Sheppy div1/2 and the SCdiv4 at Windsor that I'm "hoping" to run if agreed at ACM :P ), I couldn't commit to turning up every week to run a coaching session (even if I trained and had the skill set, which I don't!)

An there-in lies our problem with such a tiny pool, how do we find people who can guarantee getting home from work on time to run a regular coaching session, never mind committing to coaching at events. Add to that the need to train them etc.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Canadian Paddler » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:58 pm

Sorry If I came over agressive, not the intent.

BUT it is election time this weekend - anyone want to try to change the focus of the committee, or represent the views of the div 2/3/4 proponents or inject new views about how to stimulate growth in events?

There are a number of lost sites in teh South East, but we need one or two to stand up and try and run evenst there again. SHort course div 4s do not need to be in the calendar, can be organised at short notice, and do not need too much infrastructure.

If you are thinking (or can have your arm twisted) to run a div 4 event, do it, and ask for help. I (and several others) were gearing up for a trip to Exeter to help run an event (including loading gates into/on various cras and vans), but it never came off. we WILL do our best to be there to help any newbies run events. Dee can tell you what a nightmare it is having me around when yu are an organiser. :D

I grew up in Hemel, and went to Wndsor post University, so know the environment and managed to use the support in that area to be the great paddler I was (see signature) :D .
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

Dee
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Dee » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:48 pm

I was brought up in Windsor and lived there all my life until I went off to university. Never came across the canoe club when I was there though.

Any tips for running SC div 4 gratefully received (and of course anyone offering to come and help will be welcomed with open arms), I have a suspicion that it will be somewhat different from a div 1/2. One advantage we have is that we will be running it from Windsor canoe club premises so power/loos/changing rooms all up and running :D . Windsor will also run a canteen from their kitchen.

Wish me luck!
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Dee
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Dee » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:49 pm

PS.... you were NOT a nightmare to have around; in fact, I probably wouldn't have survived that first slalom if you hadn't have been there.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

Flipper
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Flipper » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:22 pm

Dead right Dee, this is definitely NOT a pop at the committee, it's a plea to recognise that we are in a rather dodgy situation so need a fresh look at our strategy at entry level, just in this group of regions at least. And yes, we have to acknowledge that it's up to us to build our own future. The initiative at Windsor is fantastic - a great relief, and I will do my best to support it. You ask for tips about running a D4SC. I'd just say at this level the only important thing is to have an event, any event, run as best the club can within the limitations of its water, equipment, manpower, expertise and time. If that means using training gates, (or even one or two buoys in the water!) too few upstreams, C1 pattern not even-handed, etc etc then so be it as long as the intent is good and the course a fair test of boat handling skills. If it's that or nothing then I'd challenge anyone to dare complain at this level.

I think all we need from the slalom community as a whole is a tacit acknowledgement that given the circumstance, there may be ways in which (for D4 events) some of the regs are occasionally observed more in the spirit of the sport than in strict observance of the letter of the law.

Dee, do you think Sheppy's two D3-4 events could be run as D2-3's? Then with the help of clubs like Windsor we might slot in some 1-day D4's or even D4-3's to complement them. Then we start to have the semblace of a season accessible to more youngsters.

Terryg
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Terryg » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:40 pm

Colin, I think I am the only one who has mentioned the committee, not a criticism but an observation, based on things like this: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2004

Definitely a lot less events in the south than there used to be, and much harder to get people interested without local events.

Canadian Paddler
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Re: Entry level slalom. A slow motion train crash?

Post by Canadian Paddler » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:10 pm

One question... When is teh Windsor div 4? Can't see it on the calendar or are you going to apply nearer the time.

Oh all right second question - what help do you want from the rest of us....Clocks? Boats? Bodies? other things?
All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers.
Old. Fat. Slow. Bad tempered. And those are my good points

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