Veterans - Alternate points

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djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Veterans - Alternate points

Post by djberriman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:20 am

For those who don't know we are trialing an alternate points system this season (unofficial and and not replacing the current system).

I know some of you are chomping at the bit to see how the alternate points are working out. I've got them working in the ranking database but I need Nick to reload the results before last weekend as I only just managed to find time to do the coding this week. As soon as that is done I will make them available.

djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by djberriman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:24 pm


Jasper
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by Jasper » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:56 am

Hi all.

Having noticing the 'Alternative Vet.'s Ranking Points' on a couple of recent race results, I tried to find out a little more about how they were being calculated.

I have not been able to locate the formulas for how they are being calculated but did locate this link to the Alternative Vet.'s Ranking list which is being created using the Alternative Vet.'s Ranking Points system.

Mote research required.
Jasper

JimW
Posts: 518
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Location: Pinkston

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by JimW » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:41 pm

A) Is it working?
The alternative points listed on results sheets don't match what are listed on that page for me, and clicking on my own name takes me to the proper ranking points.

B) Is it worth having?
I can't even remember what problem the alternative points were supposed to solve, does anyone find them useful?

Main reason I ask about B, is that from recent experience I got the impression that the alternative Vets points are the source of most of the debugging needed on simply slalom, and to me it seems unreasonable for ranking division results, organisers, and particularly Dave who does the debugging, to be disrupted to get this working properly...

JBS
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by JBS » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:40 am

As I recall Jim, one or two Vets were unhappy that they got less points for participating at a Div 1 or Prem than if they did a Div 2 event.
ie a paddler would score 500 points at a Div 2 while they ( the aggrieved Vets) would score less than that on harder courses with better racers and would therfor not be as high in the Vets ranking as someone who only did Div 2's.
Personally, I took this challenge (in K1) and could score 500 points at a Div2 and managed to score over 500 at 1 out of the 2 Div 1's I did. To be fair that is what separated Chris Wilde and myself in the end of year ranking as we both had a stack of 500's from Div 2's.
Personally, I don't see the problem with the existing system. Vets is just a laugh that allowed me to race at whatever events my kids were at or that I fancied going to. The British Open for example, where I scored less points for making the semi final than I would at any Div 2. Ultimately, if you really want to get "proper" points get ranked. After all, the best and fastest "Vets" are still ranked paddlers........Huw Swetnam, Fiona Pennie and David Florence to name but 3 paddlers all aged over 35 who are, lets be honest, pretty good!

chriswilde
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 8:41 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by chriswilde » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:09 pm

Need a like button!!! Well said Joel......paddle vets for the fun of it, get ranked if you want a serious competition! :D

djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by djberriman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:26 am

Thanks for pointing out there is an issue, I will take a look.

There is I believe an issue, rankings decide who is picked for interclubs and pan celtics etc.

There is a very simple way to resolve this which harks back to before we changed vets.

Each vet declares their division (in my case 2). I think we all honestly know where we would be if we were in the ranking system.

A 2 can not outrank a 1 or P (providing they have raced).

This is similar to when we declared as a P/1 or 2/3.

This would require no work except from me and the bib officer. This how Masters league works.

Secondly it would allow organisers to give Vets trophies to the people in the division, so when I race at a 3 I get nothing (quite happy with that). SS could do this automatically.

Dee
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by Dee » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am

djberriman wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:26 am

This would require no work except from me and the bib officer… SS could do this automatically.
I beg to differ, for SS to do this automatically I suspect Dave would need to do some work and for him to be able to do his bit I would probably need to do some stuff too.

… just saying :D :lol: :lol:
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!

rose
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:25 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by rose » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:07 pm

I like these alternative points; as I paddle at div 2, 3 and div 1.
And I accept that if I don’t finish in the results of the division I get zero points.

djberriman
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Veterans - Alternate points

Post by djberriman » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:15 pm

I checked out the alternate rankings page and it looks like it is working fine, if you look at the top 5 K1M you will see they are different as are there points.

The alt points only show on this page so if you click into your individual page you will not see them, but your top 5 counting results are on the the alt ranking page.

If I can find a moment I may mod the individual page as well.

Duncan

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