Who's the greatest ever?

PaulBolton · Post by **PaulBolton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:39 pm

Was a little bored this morning and having just read "the ultimate run" my mind starting to wander to working out who are the best ever slalom kayakers. I've selected for K1M, K1L, C1 and C2 for GB and Rest of World. Here's my selections:

K1M GB.......Richard Fox
K1M RoW.....Richard Fox
K1L GB.......Liz Sharman
K1L RoW Liz Again
C1 GB Martin Hedges
C1 RoW........David Hearn
C2 GB...........Still Waiting - coming soon I think!
C2 RoW........Hochschorners

Who would you vote for. Spiderman, no voting for yourself!!!LoL

Carlr · Post by **Carlr** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:57 pm

What about C1 RoW........Jon Lugbill ?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:16 pm

Me!....oh! Just spotted the rules! Well, first of all your request for suggestions for the best ever kayakers would eliminate all the Canadian paddlers so lets say you mean slalom paddlers full stop

First name I dont see on your list is Mr Martikan who should definately be in the running with 4 World Championships and a couple of Olympic Golds under his spraydeck. I once thought Norbert Sattler of Austria (1973 K1 World Champion) was the man to beat...but then I did in a later British Open at Llangollen so I cannot count him now

(He was having a pretty bad day on the Dee as I recall!).

Until someone wins the World Championship more than 5 times I think its fair to say that the one-man-focused-machine that was Richard Fox is the all time great for me. Even without an Olympic Gold. Richard was simply a brilliant combination of a natural paddler and a hard working determined one. In the days when team events were an all important couple of runs down the course before the individual event, I am proud to recall paddling team with Richard in the mid 70's. Ok, so he was 5 years old or something and soon stepped up to the rostrum from the top 20 that we were generally paddling in but at least I featured in his career at some point

C1, yes, big white water man Hedgy was the best we ever had but no World Championship as I recall. David Florence with that brilliant Silver Medal may well have usurped him with that

But the global award definately goes to MM as mentioned above. Awesome.

Horschoners in the C2. Breathtaking. But nationally I gotta go with Tim and ET. Even with one feeling a bit icky at Tully they were comfortably ahead of the new "dangermen" in C2.....I think they will push Tim and ET to simply become faster - there is nothing like good healthy competition to get the best of people

And dont forget an award for longevity. Only when you youngsters are knocking on a bit will you appreciate the performances of the paddlers who have been going year after year after year. My vote for that - David Ford ..... he has been in the Canadian national team since 1984! What? Yes ...forever!

Plenty of stars in every sport of course. Great topic for debate...nice one

PP

campbell · Post by **campbell** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Good posting.

David Hearn wasn't even the best C1 paddler in the USA! Jon Lugbil was surely better - I thought you said you had just read The Ultimate Run? And Martikan. I wouldn't like to have to choose between Martikan and Lugbil. But as I only know Lugbil from legend, and have had the pleasure of witnessing Martikan's brilliance, I will go for Martikan.

Gareth Mariott for best British C1.

Possibly Lyn Simpson for best British K1W? And I think you need to look beyond the 1980's for best K1W in the world. Stepenka Hilgertova or Elena Kaliska. Both double Olympic Champs, World Champs and multiple World Cup Champs.

Smith/Bowman for best British C2. Although I'm sure there must be some more good crews from back in the day worthy of a mention.

PaulBolton · Post by **PaulBolton** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:08 am

Nice one, I must admit the hardest choice was in C1. I chose Dave Hearn for his consistency, something that appeals at my age!- look at how many times he won the national championships (18 times between 1976 and 2001). I also think it can be argued that Hearn was the more technically capable of the 2, whereas Lugbill favoured speed. Both are unquestionably great paddlers and perhaps should share the "prize".

I got to judge Fox once in an international at Llangollen when I was 15. I managed to get a lift up with Ian Freestone (he made Freeblades paddles) but I didn't have a lift back. I spent all my time between judging stints asking for a lift and finally got a ride from a C1 paddler (surname Bell I think), who went quite a long way out of his way to get me home, but drove like a man posessed down to the A5 - I didn't think I'd see 16!!!

PhilG · Post by **PhilG** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:07 am

Here's my pennies worth:

K1M GB.......Richard Fox
K1M RoW.....Richard Fox

So consistent for such a long time, three consecutive world titles and five in total in a era when they where held every other year. Bala 81, Merano 83, Augsburg 85, Savage 89 and Mettzana 93. 4th at Barcelona Olympics (but think how many Olympic titles he would have got if the slalom event had been held during his reign).

K1L GB.......Liz Sharman two world titles. Merano 83 and Bourg 85
K1L RoW Stepenka Hilgertova

C1 GB Martin Hedges on consistency even though he didn’t get the Olympic silver that Marriot and Florence achieved.
C1 RoW........Jon Lugbill edges out David Hearn on wins when it counted. 5 world titles if I’m remembering right compared to Hearns two. Olympics - same comment as Fox

C2 GB...........Bowman and Smith just edging out Arrowsmith and Brain
C2 RoW........Hochschorners

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Paul, I have an awful memory but if you were at Llangollen back then, I might have been too as you mention two good friends of mine.

Iain Freestone is still around and I spoke with him on the phone just last month. I even saw a set of Freeblades in Div 1 last month too! The madman who drove you home would have been Peter Bell of C1 fame. Both he and Iain are still pals, both of whom I bumped into a few thousand feet up in the French Alps on a ski trip in 2001 - as you do!

I dont wish to hijack or misdirect this topic at all so I will close here with a link to some data I uploaded earlier today to my website. It contains a few names from the past that might make you smile ... take a look here:-

The British Open - River Tryweryn - 1974

Back on topic, now you mention Jon Lugbil, I think I have a great picture of him that I took during the '81 Worlds at Bala...I'm sure its him. Will have to upload that one

jhall · Post by **jhall** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Just some thoughts:

Liz Sharman was probably at her best the most dominant female K1, If I remember rightly her win in her class at Hambledon in 1985 would have placed her around fifth in the mens event, and remember that the mens class included some of the best K1s in the world at the time and it was a long physical course. She was- when on form- just unbeatable.

I have to go with Jon Lugbill for C1 although I enjoyed watching Hearn more. Lugbill was unbeatable in internationals in his heyday and Hearn never looked like doing it. It was only injury that gave Hearn his win in 1985 at Augsburg. However I like the idea of giving it to Hearn for consistency.

As for K1 it has to be Fox and I would like to submit for GB C2 Jock Young and Alistair Munro, not for results so much as potential, Yes they got the team gold at Bala 81 but I always felt that had they continued we could have had a world beating C2.