Stupid Rules?? your Say

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:17 pm

It is rare I disagree with you Seedy but today I do ???

I think saying an individual having entries at a prem race in 2 different classes constitutes practice is stretching it a bit

But I think there is at least a perceived advantage in having an additional timed run by dint of a judges run.

Clearly the rules require a common sense approach and a non-flexible approach to them will only cause unnecessary upset..

I have a view (unpopular with some of our younger paddlers) that there should be a requirement for paddlers to gate judge - certainly in events up to and including Div 1 - and do the job properly too! (ooh I'm gonna be soo unpopular.)

In return they get judges runs - at the end if also competing in the event - and organisers do not have to spend ages on the PAs asking for volunteers.

I also think that until such time as our younger paddlers get to understand what is actually involved in putting on an event ( I say younger only because most older paddlers are also involved in the organisation of events), they will not appreciate what they get. I'm not getting at them in the slightest - I just genuinely think that many (not all!) have no clue how these events come about and the only way to rectify this is to ensure they are involved in some way.

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:30 pm

Not sure you do disagree, the OP clearly indicates that judges runs were to be taken in a differing class to the competition runs.

Surely the argument is therefore about have multiple timed runs and a perception that that may be advantageous. Have to say that I think it would be very limited and may actually be counter productive (e.g. would Dave head for the same line in C1 given he made it in C2 with Rich adding some power strokes on the other side?).

Would happily see our younger paddlers required to undertake judging, I would fully endorse a reversion to the days when at 2/3; 3/4 - X/Y slaloms start lists were organised to have Div X in the morning and Div Y in the afternoon. If required all entrants may be called to provide a judging stint.

In my early days I spent more time at events judging than paddling - mainly linked to the requirement to employ someone to provide locum cover on my paper-round and having to pay them the bulk of my weekly pay-packet to cover a saturday morning + join me for training on Thu/Friday. Result was that if I went to slalom weekends it was on water that I enjoyed and hence was more likely to travel to Netherton Bridge; Awe; Grandtully and miss out on the Novice runs at the Leny, Teith, Comrie etc.

I may upset some of our budding superstars but I think it is bad coaching to take youngsters off and target so called "easy" events to get promoted and then end up (e.g.) a Scot chasing Div 1 status that has never paddled at Tully and finds the water over intimidating.

It is not unprecedented as in Canoe Polo every team must provide a qualified referee or pay a fine to cover expenses of bringing in an alternative referee. All you are suggesting is that every entrant must be prepared to undertake some judging to ensure events are suitably staffed and managed, a lesser but similar requirement.

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:42 pm

OK I admit I have gone a bit barking today I'll blame the storm we have here!

Have re-read and yep I am agreeing with you - it was the bit about Dave having an advantage of an extra run when paddling with Richard - I don't think there is an advantage - that was the potential "disagree" bit - oh dear need a lie down in a dark room I think.

John Sturgess · Post by **John Sturgess** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:10 pm

French Slalom does it like Polo: each Club is required to produce judges in numbers proportionate to their entry at the event.
Tho' a bit easier for them because entries are put in by the Club not the individual.

Neil H · Post by **Neil H** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:17 pm

Seedy Paddler wrote:I may upset some of our budding superstars but I think it is bad coaching to take youngsters off and target so called "easy" events to get promoted and then end up (e.g.) a Scot chasing Div 1 status that has never paddled at Tully and finds the water over intimidating.

I don't want to start this off again but I was just pondering whilst completing some entry cards

Re the quote I totally agree with that - throw them in at the deep end -I know a few people who could testify that mine was....literally! I can joke about it now.

I wonder if there is a flip side to all this so I scanned back through the thread and I mean scanned so will happily stand corrected.
I don't think this has been mentioned so here goes.
I wonder if the sport could be cutting it's own throat economically.

Here's why:-

If an entry is taken for C2 for a couple of lads who are just getting paddling together and one of them is also keen to do a C1 run in a ranking race that's all ok.
However, throw this in, the venue is a long way from home and we would rarely get there if a certain set of circumstances hadn't provided an opportunity. This venue will also be hosting a Div 1 race shortly after and it would be a great opportunity to get some K1 practice because as I said we rarely get there.

What do I do? Enter him as a judge to give him K1 practice and deprive the event of some needed cash and him of developing in other categories. Or pay up and prevent him gaining some practice on an unfamiliar course.

Go!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:21 pm

Use the C1 run as practice? Its still time on the water and it what lots of us do!

slink · Post by **slink** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:30 am

There is another side to this...some of the people I have seen compete in judges runs pretty much only judge, and pootle down the course for a judges run. At lower division events, sometimes there are only a few paddling judges, so it gives these folk an opportunity to paddle and maybe get a small pot every now and then as recognition for regularly turning up and helping. If suddenly you've got half of your K1 field wanting to do a C1 judges run (or any other combination), A) who judges them, and B) it's pretty tough on the genuine volunteers.

Stick with it in its current form - if you hold an entry, you do not get a judges run (if it's a double, separate days count as separate events, so entering one & judging the other is perfectly OK). Oh, and guys and girls who have made it to prem in C1 and C2 (or K1 & C1 etc) - #### fine show - and they pay twice (almost) to go down the course 4 times!

I believe the Washburn Div 1 used late entries to judge (a common practice)...so if we then allow them a judges run too, we're rewarding late entries...with my organisers hat on "AAAARGH!"
Steve

anna-lou · Post by **anna-lou** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:54 am

I dont think using C1 run as practice is helpful really, having recently taken up C1 and got into prem/1 i find the lines you need to take are different to that in C1.

I think if people are at an event which is short of judges and they volunteer their time to judge (NOT during their class) then they should be allowed a judges run in a different craft, otherwise its left to the same people.

At lower division events it quite often becomes the role of adult members already judging/ doing a judges run to take novice/younger paddlers down the course in C2- if we stop this we are either reducing the number of judges or the number of youngsters able to paddle.

Finally if you were to make an entry in C1 and C2 at the same race wouldnt this then be allowing what would be classed as extra practice! At division 2 events and lower, practice is free so some may be on all friday night and others at the crack of dawn on saturday/sunday morning- so surely if some do a judges run this does not equait to any more practice than others, however i agree stricter rules for higher class divisions prem/1 if the craft is the same.