MASTERS LEAGUE - THE NATIONAL LEAGUE TABLE FOR THE 35+

Slapdash Sal · Post by **Slapdash Sal** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:17 pm

Like Oldandslow I am finding it difficult to find the Masters list - i found one but i am not sure it is the most uptodate. Please can someone direct me to where the up to date list is?
Thanks

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:57 pm

Bottom of page 5... 12 Oct

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:33 am

Yes, that's where you will find the current standings. Div 1 and 2 are all done and dusted now but hopefully there will be one more prem event to come in. Not sure how much difference the results will make to the positions but the DOB's of 3 Prem paddlers will certainly make a difference! If I do not have them, they cannot be included. Messers Bridges, Meyrick & Jeyes, I need your DOB pronto please

PP

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:16 pm

Peter, I'm currently working on a Vet's ranking for you to include. I've done the div 2's but not the Prem/1 and 3's. I'll let you have it when I'm done.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:35 am

Ah, ok. Im assuming you are referring to the non point scoring Vets? I have no idea how they can be included and, as I made clear from the outset, one of the objects of this proposal is to make unnecessary/undesireable any other type of class for the older competitors. Sorry, but I do not wish to become involved in any system relating to the curent Vets system accordingly. I would like to see all "Masters" (incidentally this is a reference to age qualification and not ability qualification) racing in the same system. A few people have mentioned how the Vets system is still preferred by a few but this is evidently a distinct minority. I do not see the Slalom committee adopting the Masters proposal and immediately doing away with the Vets class but I think its days must be numbered.

On the age band subject I have just been going through the details and results of the World Masters Games and note they use 5 year age bands also (results here http://www.2009worldmasters.com/default ... fragment-3 and well done all Brits!). All things are pointing to adopt this in this proposal so unless there are any significant and sustainable objections, I will be going with this in my report to the Slalom Committee. Incidentally, I have discussed the Motion with my Club (VKC) and it was suggested that this particular Motion might be best dealt with by the Committee itself rather than coming from a Club. It is for this reason that I propose to report to the Committee in the near future how the Masters League could be incorporated into the current ranking system without too much change or inconvenience.

I will be referring to the age banding as that of the ICF. The World Masters Games were similar as follows:-

Age determined at 31 December 2009.

Competitors can compete in one age category which can either be their eligible age category as at 31 December 2009, or a younger one.

In crews of mixed ages, the average age of the crew will determine the age category. All crew members must meet the minimum age requirement, ie be at least 35 years of age as at 31 December 2009. (The latter is a little different to taking the age of the youngest crew member which I think is the current basis for determining an age band in the ICF rules.)

If there is no more to add here, in this now 7 page online discussion, I will set about my report to the slalom committee and lets hope it is adopted to give us all a more interesting, enjoyable, fair and highly competitive 2010

PP

davebrads · Post by **davebrads** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:14 pm

I would just like to add that I like what you have done and the way you have done it.

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:51 pm

OK... I won't bother finishing it then. I thought you said they weren't included because you didn't have the info. Incidentally... they do score points equivalent to the corresponding division, (but you know that because you were VET last season.)

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:43 am

Sorry Oldandslow, it was the info on lower division DV's that I never received. Yes, the Vets do score points relative to the division they are competing in but because they do not score the same points I do not see how they can be incorporated. For example, if a V finishes above a DV he does not push the DV further down the points like another DV paddler would. So if you had 10 V's ahead of a DV, they would all get relative points but the DV would still get the same points because, in reality, the V's did not actually take any of the DV's points away.

And yes, I was a V. But I found the entire class quite pointless (excuse the pun on points) and that is why I have done two things. I have moved over to being a DV myself and I have endeavoured to create a League system that will hopefully do away with the need/demand for a secondary Veteran (Master) system. I elected to paddle as a Vet in previous years because I enjoyed running both Prem and Div 1 courses in the past. However, I missed the true spirit of the competition, that IS slalom, and felt the need to call for change given the continued increase in entries from the more mature paddlers. I really do think that a properly considered Masters League can improve the sport and the enjoyment of people involved in it. All IMHO of course

PP

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:14 am

But that still does not get around the fact that those who have declared Vet have done so because they do not want to move up the divisions like DVs can. There are perfectly valid reasons for their choices and as I are it, a very healthy competition going on between the division 2 Vets!

Slapdash Sal · Post by **Slapdash Sal** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:50 pm

Thanks for the guidance to the league table Old and Slow.
I have emailed Peter but it looks like there is still a bit of updating to do for the Div 1 men and women as the table I saw didn't seem to have the Llandysul results on it and not all the women's points are up - Hopefully you've got those now.
What a big job it must have been and it certainly seems to have stimulated some discussion.
Thanks
Slapdash

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:02 am

Oh my goodness.....this took me a lot longer than I expected! I have now completed my report to the slalom committee and this includes the final results of the "unofficial" 2009 Masters League. The report and results are available here:-

http://www.box.net/shared/4nvr83uzbz

The above file does not print out due to some parts of the Appendix so if you wish to print the document please download this one:-

http://www.box.net/shared/78a0b1llac

Please note that this document is a "done deal" as far as I am concerned. I need to get on with other stuff now (its almost 5am!) It is now a matter for the slalom committee and voting people to decide if the proposal should be entertained/adopted. Heres hoping! I re-read the comments in this thread before finalising things and did actually change my tune of a few things. CP was right about both the date at which ages are set should be such that it is opposite to juniors and allowing older paddlers scores to count in younger masters age bands. Nice one Colin, many thanks for all your input, and the input from all others here too of course. I also took a step back on trying to ditch the Vets. My personal view has already been expressed here but the proposal is not all about my own veiws of course. I have therefore suggested that we retain the Vets as a standalone group, in exactly the way they are now, for those who enjoy the competition it offers. There is no sensible way they can be incorporated in the Masters League system (any more than they can into the current DV system) and it is clearly unreasonable to just dispense with them. I do not consider now that they will depleat the numbers who will take up the Masters League to any noticeable degree and the conclusion is therefore to let that particular sleeping dog lie.

As a designer by profession, I learned many years ago that it is not possible to please all the people all the time. However, I genuinely feel that the Masters League will add a great deal to many competitors if it is adopted. I do hope that the vast majority of over 35's can see the benefits and say "eye" when called upon

Finally, a few personal comments - Slapdash......Wow! Very well done indeed! Martyn.....you too, well raced! But watch out in 2010 as I may do more than the basic 5 comps next year! Mr Briggs....what is this now? 20 years or thereabouts in the top flight? Enjoy your unofficial title! Phil G......still not sure how you do it...looking forward to next year comparing times

Dave R.....you too.....its bad enough being beaten by old kayakers thanks without you continuing to do it too! Dave W....K1 AND C1 Master! I suggest you buy a cape or something for 2010 mate! Brilliant! Finally, Im sure she is not online but Avis.....you are an inspiration!

My work is done here.

PP

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:31 am

Congratulations Peter, you have done a good job with an uneviable task. Shame about the huge number of DOBless!

MikeH · Post by **MikeH** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:09 am

Hi, I pm'ed my DoB to you a few weeks ago when I first spotted the thread here, anyway it's 29/01/55. Wine and cards always welcome. Thanks for all the work.
Cheers
Mike

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:39 am

Thanks Oldandslow

Yes, it would have been good to get all DOB's but as this is a "test season", it is not really important that we have them all. It is enough to see that the potential is there for this to form a very large part of the slalom scene to a great many competitors. Hopefully, those who did not appear in any specific "M" age band will make sure they do next season if this is formally adopted. It was essentially due to not getting "bulk" DOB's from the lower divisions where these were made available to me for higher divisions. I am particularly grateful to NP for this and for a great deal of input from him during the 2009 season.

MikeH. I hope you understand my missing you out of this test season in error. Sincere apologies. I have had more than one or two messages and emails as you can imagine! Obviously, in a formal version of the Masters League, any such oversight would be rectified. However, given that this season was a "bench test", forgive me if I do not revise the paperwork at this late stage. If should be quite straight forward to view the results and slot yourself in at the appropriate points total of course.

Accordingly, if anyone is thinking of raising the same matter and passing on DOB info now, sorry but it is too late for the 2009 unofficial season. You gotta be in it to win it as they say, so please make sure that (a) you support the introduction of the Masters League and (b), if it is introduced for 2010, that you ensure your DOB is stated on your Bib Application and that you opt into the Masters League. I am hopeful that all Bib application information will be passed onto me so that I can properly administer the League next season. I think that if it is adopted, it should be understood that if you have not ensured that your DOB information has resulted in you being placed in a Masters age band by the last race of the season, your result will NOT be featured in the end of season Masters League results list.

PP

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:26 pm

Oh, of course, a roundup of the unofficial Masters Champions and National British Masters Champions follows:-

2009 Unofficial Masters Champions

Mens K1

M35/40 Steve Briggs - Matlock CC (Premier Division) *

M45 Carl Rouch – St Albans & Hertsmere CC (Premier Division)
M50 Martyn Setchell - Stafford & Stone CC (Division 1)
M55 Dave Waine – Shepperton CC (Division 1)
M60 William Hanham – Independent (Division 2)

Mens C1

M35/40 Adrian Jones - Independent (Premier Division) *

M45 Dave Royle – Stafford & Stone CC (Premier Division)
M50/55 Dave Waine – Shepperton CC (Division 1)
M60 David Wright – Woodsetton CC (Division 3)

Ladies K1

M35/40/45 Sally Atkinson – Proteus CC (Division 1) *

M50 Penny Swaine – Swaledale Outdoor Centre (Division 2)
M55/60/65/70 Avis Noott – Bristol CC (Division 2)

Ladies C1

M35 Julie Foster – Rugby CC (Division 3) *

M40/45 Donna Hawkins – Matlock (Division 3)

* Unofficial 2009 British National Masters Champion