Is it just me ? - Startlists
I am stealing someone else's idea here, but was thinking about it and think it is a really good idea!
How about massively increasing the entry fee, controvertial I know! but then having a significant reduction for early entries, so you get the benefit of entering early rather than being penalised for being late. I also think that the £2.25 levy for late entries isn't big enough. I don't think that it discourages enough people and is a bit of a nightmare to ensure that everyone pays when there are so many people doing it and so many people to chase...
What do people reckon? If there is support, I'll put in a motion to ACM
How about massively increasing the entry fee, controvertial I know! but then having a significant reduction for early entries, so you get the benefit of entering early rather than being penalised for being late. I also think that the £2.25 levy for late entries isn't big enough. I don't think that it discourages enough people and is a bit of a nightmare to ensure that everyone pays when there are so many people doing it and so many people to chase...
What do people reckon? If there is support, I'll put in a motion to ACM
For Div 1 absolutely - not so likely for Prem given the courses.boatmum wrote:If you are a Div 1 or Prem paddler - not sure why you would be hedging your bets on the water levels?
For me I would not want to travel a long way for no water.
Places like Llandysul and Abbey Rapids (great events, lovely people, no water) are ones where (if I were not timing) I would want to wait until the week of the event to decide if there will be water!!!
My only observation on this would be yet more admin headaches. Presumably there are more entries put in on time than are late - the advantage of charging big late fees is - the paddler has to pay them, the organiser just has to bank them.
I suspect that giving early entry discounts could "confuse" many, specially those who still enter late but still send in the discounted amount - me cynical? - as if
So then chasing part payments etc
While I think your positive rather than the perhaps more negative approach I suggested is great my suspicion is that in real terms it may create even more admin challenges than it solves.
Experience is the only advantage of being old and gnarly
I suspect that giving early entry discounts could "confuse" many, specially those who still enter late but still send in the discounted amount - me cynical? - as if
So then chasing part payments etcWhile I think your positive rather than the perhaps more negative approach I suggested is great my suspicion is that in real terms it may create even more admin challenges than it solves.
Experience is the only advantage of being old and gnarly
I'd have to agree, specifically because I had the conversation with someone at Tees - not sure who it was thoughNicky wrote:I am stealing someone else's idea here, but was thinking about it and think it is a really good idea!
How about massively increasing the entry fee, controvertial I know! but then having a significant reduction for early entries, so you get the benefit of entering early rather than being penalised for being late. I also think that the £2.25 levy for late entries isn't big enough. I don't think that it discourages enough people and is a bit of a nightmare to ensure that everyone pays when there are so many people doing it and so many people to chase...
What do people reckon? If there is support, I'll put in a motion to ACM
at the moment, a fair number of people enter on time, however, a large amount enter in the last week and quite a number still send the reduced amount and we still have the admin issue. I'd be a little more positive about chasing £20 than £2.25. (I'm not stating how much this should be, but giving an example!)
Late entries in my limited experience of running races are actually going up. I think like Nicky that the late fee is not currently a discouragement. It needs to increase in my view to at least £10 in the two weeks before race day and perhaps £20 on race day to reflect the considerable pain it causes to the organisers and timing team particularly at Prem and Div 1. I think at Div 2 it should be about £5. At Div 3 however entry on the day is the norm and much easier to deal with as it is what is expected and nobody wants start lists beforehand!
There are some who have a valid reason for a late entry and I would not want to discourage them from paddling by not allowing late entry at all. The other alternative would be to offer them an opportunity to judge as well as race rather than a late fee. Making them judge and charging a late fee seems a little harsh to me although it has been done.
There are some who have a valid reason for a late entry and I would not want to discourage them from paddling by not allowing late entry at all. The other alternative would be to offer them an opportunity to judge as well as race rather than a late fee. Making them judge and charging a late fee seems a little harsh to me although it has been done.
There are paddlers with jobs abroad, in the forces and offshore who may not know until the last minute whether they can enter. I would prefer if they entered early and I will normally return their fee if they can't but not all organisers do this thus they often don't.
There are also paddlers who get promoted e.g. the day or even week beforehand as you note.
There are also paddlers who get promoted e.g. the day or even week beforehand as you note.
I agree that the current late entry fee for Division 1 and Premier only does not deter people from entering late. The late fee is only an extra 15% of the entry fee. The encouragement to enter on time comes from those who know that this makes organising a start list and event much harder. The deterrent many years ago was that paddlers had to enter on time to guarantee an entry as start lists were often full. As Nicky says, many paddlers enter late and only send the standard fee and you then have to request the late payment.
I think it is reasonable to return entry fees if a paddler is unable to attend and they contact you politely to say they cannot come. I wonder if we guaranteed to return entry fees if the paddler withdrew within at least a week before the event, this might encourage paddlers to enter on time. There would always be the concern that too many paddlers would pull out. So you would have to weigh up whether you want more entries early with withdrawals or more entries later.
Another option would be that all late entries race at the start of the class and not in their bib order. From a computer point of view, this would mean adding say 100 to all bib numbers received after the closing date, and these paddlers racing first. I'm sure this would incentivise many paddlers to enter on time!
Obviously genuine late entries e.g. promotions would be dealt with as an 'on time' entry.
A late entry is strictly speaking any entry received after the 15 day closing date. As an organiser, I always tried to do the provisional start list by the Tuesday following the deadline and so took the stance that entries received by the Monday/Tuesday of the following week and on the provisional start list would be accepted without late fees and that those after would be charged late fees.
I think it is reasonable to return entry fees if a paddler is unable to attend and they contact you politely to say they cannot come. I wonder if we guaranteed to return entry fees if the paddler withdrew within at least a week before the event, this might encourage paddlers to enter on time. There would always be the concern that too many paddlers would pull out. So you would have to weigh up whether you want more entries early with withdrawals or more entries later.
Another option would be that all late entries race at the start of the class and not in their bib order. From a computer point of view, this would mean adding say 100 to all bib numbers received after the closing date, and these paddlers racing first. I'm sure this would incentivise many paddlers to enter on time!
Obviously genuine late entries e.g. promotions would be dealt with as an 'on time' entry.
A late entry is strictly speaking any entry received after the 15 day closing date. As an organiser, I always tried to do the provisional start list by the Tuesday following the deadline and so took the stance that entries received by the Monday/Tuesday of the following week and on the provisional start list would be accepted without late fees and that those after would be charged late fees.
that would be brilliant, but instead of at the beginning of their category, what about at the beginning of first runs and the end of second as a group, we can throw rotten veg at them or something...
or maybe not...
no issues with those who get promoted and not wanting to change the rule completely, just as we are now, but get an early reduction rather than late fee.
Nicky
or maybe not...
no issues with those who get promoted and not wanting to change the rule completely, just as we are now, but get an early reduction rather than late fee.
Nicky
Without the rotten fruit and veg (well, the stink of some rivers is bad enough without us adding to it!) but it means the other competitiors get a lie in and will finish earlierNicky wrote:that would be brilliant, but instead of at the beginning of their category, what about at the beginning of first runs and the end of second as a group, we can throw rotten veg at them or something...
