I/We haven't really been in the sport that long but I clearly remember meeting a young lad who was obviously a talented paddler who has since dropped out of the sport due to cost and probably commitment involved
I recently had cause to calculate how much it has cost us since October 2010. Anyone want to guess.........it's scary and this a quieter year than previously with no trips abroad or major new kit.
I got to wondering what is the affect on the sport and whether it is pricing people out who could have had a future. If so is this just making the sport be dominated by the more financially fortunate amongst us - which is not necessarily the same as the most talented.
Question is does this limit chance of international success for the country by potential future champions dropping out. Surley if there is a bigger pool to draw form the odds go up
I don't know - what happens in say Australia or America when young sporting talent is recognised early
I'm sure it's all been said before but hey ho
Enhancing the Sport - Good or Bad
I agree it is expensive and in some ways will become more so with the cost of using the pumped water courses that are now coming on line at the top levels.
One of the ways to reduce costs is to attract sponsorship and this comes with success and visibility not least in the media and it is a chicken and egg situation. Any solutions gratefully received.
One of the ways to reduce costs is to attract sponsorship and this comes with success and visibility not least in the media and it is a chicken and egg situation. Any solutions gratefully received.
Nicky wrote:our sport is expensive, but it is fantastic, I am not sure what point you are getting at Neil? How can it be made cheaper?
By reducing the number of national ranking events and replacing them with local open events. So having more events like the Abbey Rapids Super Slalom Sundays and Stafford & Stone minislaloms that are open to anyone, but mainly aimed at people from the area.
I think it's fantastic too, else I wouldn't drag myself around the land. We ride the cost out a the moment but it's hard sometimes as I know it is for many.Nicky wrote:our sport is expensive, but it is fantastic, I am not sure what point you are getting at Neil? How can it be made cheaper?
I think I was just saying are we in danger of losing some talent for financial reasons and if so what could be done - I was really just throwing it out there for comment.
Heard this on the news earlier. I advocate sending them off to a Siberian school at 3 - it doesn't look at all bleak
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1....494.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1....494.stm
I agree with Neil
After observing what goes on at all levels of racing, it seems to me that until you get to the top, and are then probably at an age when you can look after yourself, you really do need parents with both the funds and the time/commitment to take you to races for many weekends of the season for many years. And presumably there’s all the mid-week training to get to and from.
Even those with good club support at the races still seem to depend on parents to get them there and look after them whilst they are there.
So, to get to the top, just being good at slalom isn’t enough. I’m sure you can make comparisons with the same things that have been said about tennis for years.
Solution ? No obvious one but providing clubs with mini-buses could be one and making a pool of [plastic ?] slalom boats available for lower division races might be a good way to spend some money.
After observing what goes on at all levels of racing, it seems to me that until you get to the top, and are then probably at an age when you can look after yourself, you really do need parents with both the funds and the time/commitment to take you to races for many weekends of the season for many years. And presumably there’s all the mid-week training to get to and from.
Even those with good club support at the races still seem to depend on parents to get them there and look after them whilst they are there.
So, to get to the top, just being good at slalom isn’t enough. I’m sure you can make comparisons with the same things that have been said about tennis for years.
Solution ? No obvious one but providing clubs with mini-buses could be one and making a pool of [plastic ?] slalom boats available for lower division races might be a good way to spend some money.
I think Peter touched on the idea of sponsorship coming with visibility and success and I'd agree that is the way it is.
I can't help thinking though that the flip-side of that is that visibility and success could come with sponsorship.
I am not even talking about individuals here but how about a collective. If this could be sold to a sponsor as developing the champions of tomorrow, as a squad, it would benefit us and be great publicity for them - whoever they were.
There is no doubt, for me, that towards the end of the season it does get difficult and I expect that others feel the same - does anyone miss races for the cost alone?
As I previously said I know a lad who dropped out and wonder if other talented names form the past faded away for similar reasons.
I guess it is true that sponsorship for those below 16 and not paddling for their respective country might be harder to come by, however, I feel that approach is a bit short sighted and thinking in the here and now. I accept that it goes where it is needed now but wonder if a trick is being missed here; could some funding be acquired for the next generation?
In another thread I recall raising the issue of sponsored events i.e. Lee Valley and threw Tesco into the frame as they were dead close to Waltham Abbey - HQ wise. Now I am not targeting them necessarily but just using them as an example seeing as they already sponsor the sport.
I like the idea of minibuses but see that that is an outlay involved with that. Again though, there are different ways of gaining sponsorship - how about approaching a national minibus hire company - you see where I'm going!
It's always impressive to see the SCA bus at events and then you have to ask why can't it be done elsewhere - although I expect logistics might be harder.
So I expect that this will encourage more healthy debate - which is why I raised it in the first place.
A bit of lateral thinking might get us somewhere
Look forward to more comments
I can't help thinking though that the flip-side of that is that visibility and success could come with sponsorship.
I am not even talking about individuals here but how about a collective. If this could be sold to a sponsor as developing the champions of tomorrow, as a squad, it would benefit us and be great publicity for them - whoever they were.
There is no doubt, for me, that towards the end of the season it does get difficult and I expect that others feel the same - does anyone miss races for the cost alone?
As I previously said I know a lad who dropped out and wonder if other talented names form the past faded away for similar reasons.
I guess it is true that sponsorship for those below 16 and not paddling for their respective country might be harder to come by, however, I feel that approach is a bit short sighted and thinking in the here and now. I accept that it goes where it is needed now but wonder if a trick is being missed here; could some funding be acquired for the next generation?
In another thread I recall raising the issue of sponsored events i.e. Lee Valley and threw Tesco into the frame as they were dead close to Waltham Abbey - HQ wise. Now I am not targeting them necessarily but just using them as an example seeing as they already sponsor the sport.
I like the idea of minibuses but see that that is an outlay involved with that. Again though, there are different ways of gaining sponsorship - how about approaching a national minibus hire company - you see where I'm going!
It's always impressive to see the SCA bus at events and then you have to ask why can't it be done elsewhere - although I expect logistics might be harder.
So I expect that this will encourage more healthy debate - which is why I raised it in the first place.
A bit of lateral thinking might get us somewhere
Look forward to more comments
As a club (non-slalom really) we have a fleet of slalom boats for anyone in the club to use at whatever level they are in in the sport. We got the funding from the local Heritage Foundation. There are lots of grants out there for clubs to tap into so club can help the individuals by having boats to use.
Greenstar, Viking, Stafford & Stone are other clubs that I know of that have got funding to help with kit.
I am not sure that we can do much about the travel/ entry costs side of the sport though, I think that comes down to the individuals to get sponsorship. I know a few Div 1 paddlers that have got themselves sponsorship from local businesses and at least one of them started getting sponsorship in Div 2. Perhaps part of the challenge for those wanting to get to the top is to have the determination to get the funding to get there?
Greenstar, Viking, Stafford & Stone are other clubs that I know of that have got funding to help with kit.
I am not sure that we can do much about the travel/ entry costs side of the sport though, I think that comes down to the individuals to get sponsorship. I know a few Div 1 paddlers that have got themselves sponsorship from local businesses and at least one of them started getting sponsorship in Div 2. Perhaps part of the challenge for those wanting to get to the top is to have the determination to get the funding to get there?
The SCA bus is a great facility, I am sure that without it there wouldn't be anywhere near the number of scottish paddlers in the top divisions. England is a much larger country, and what we need to have an equivalent is similar facilities organised on a regional basis. Until recently English funding was centralised at Nottingham, and ambitious paddlers (and their parents) were expected to travel to Nottingham to take advantage of the facilities and coaching available, and though there are good reasons for this it did exclude paddlers living more than a couple of hours from HPP. The situation has improved recently with the introduction of regional coaches, but in reality weekend training still requires travelling to a white water facility, whether HPP, the Tryweryn or, in the future, Lee Valley. If England want to compete with what is offered in Scotland we need regional buses.
It might be possible for clubs to access the kind of funding necessary, but it would take a significant investment in time by the volunteer club coaches to make it work. I've always been impressed with the devotion Esther has put in at Green Star, and this has resulted in paddlers being able to race at a high level who otherwise would not have the resources to train and race regularly. However I don't have the time to do it myself, and people like Esther are few and far between.
In Germany the clubs are often sponsored, and this certainly pays for the equipment, and perhaps more besides - John might be able cast some further light on this. It's a model that might work, though there are cultural differences that might make finding sponsorship easier in Germany than in the UK.
As a final note, plastic slalom boats are not the answer. The performance is universally dire, and young paddlers need access to appropriately sized and modern boats at an early stage to have any chance of progressing further in the sport.
It might be possible for clubs to access the kind of funding necessary, but it would take a significant investment in time by the volunteer club coaches to make it work. I've always been impressed with the devotion Esther has put in at Green Star, and this has resulted in paddlers being able to race at a high level who otherwise would not have the resources to train and race regularly. However I don't have the time to do it myself, and people like Esther are few and far between.
In Germany the clubs are often sponsored, and this certainly pays for the equipment, and perhaps more besides - John might be able cast some further light on this. It's a model that might work, though there are cultural differences that might make finding sponsorship easier in Germany than in the UK.
As a final note, plastic slalom boats are not the answer. The performance is universally dire, and young paddlers need access to appropriately sized and modern boats at an early stage to have any chance of progressing further in the sport.
Yep England - that's what I meant by logistics.davebrads wrote:England is a much larger country, and what we need to have an equivalent is similar facilities organised on a regional basis.
It might be possible for clubs to access the kind of funding necessary, but it would take a significant investment in time by the volunteer club coaches to make it work. However I don't have the time to do it myself, and people like Esther are few and far between.
In Germany the clubs are often sponsored, and this certainly pays for the equipment, and perhaps more besides - John might be able cast some further light on this.
I'd agree it looks like a chore and leaving it to individuals is a bit hit and miss - it is time consuming and can sap your will. Maybe if anyone has been through it experience could be shared to lessen the impact.
Blimey Esther - that's a glowing testament.
Interested to hear about the Germans from John (or is it Johan!)
Interesting this
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PaulBolton
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:30 pm
- Location: Lincoln
My son did a double event this weekend and the entry fee was £15.25. My daughter will compete in her sport this coming weekend and her entry fee is £80. Both do around 10 competitions a year. Therefore, from where I'm sat, slalom is a very "cheap" sport, particularly as canoes are low-maintenance. I think the main expense is travel. As such, I'm a strong advocate of doubles but that's an already well discussed topic and it does appear most don't share my view.
